How IFS Differs From Traditional Therapy ft. Emily Powell
How IFS Differs From Traditional Therapy
In this episode of "Going Inside," John and Emily delve into the transformative power of Internal Family Systems (IFS) therapy. They explore the paradigm shift from traditional therapeutic approaches to IFS, emphasizing the innate capacity for healing and the importance of self-leadership.
Key Topics Discussed:
1. About Internal Family Systems (IFS):
- Understanding the concept of parts within Internal Family Systems therapy and how they manifest in clients' experiences.
2. Exploring Traumas:
- Exploring the significance of addressing both big "T" traumas and everyday relational experiences in therapy.
3. The Role of Compassion:
- Highlighting the role of compassion and curiosity in navigating clients' inner landscapes and facilitating healing.
4. Therapeutic Agends:
- Examining the impact of therapeutic agendas and the importance of holding space without pressure or expectation.
5. Implications of IFS:
- Reflecting on the broader implications of IFS in daily life, including its potential to foster empathy and understanding in interpersonal interactions.
Learn more about Emily: https://www.emilypowellcounselingservices.com/
Interview transcript:
Emily Powell Full Episode
John: [00:00:00] This is Going Inside, healing trauma from the inside out. Hosted by me, licensed trauma therapist, John Clarke. Going Inside is a weekly podcast on a mission to help you heal from trauma and connect with your authentic self. Tune in for enlightening guests, interviews, immersive solo deep dives, real life therapy sessions, and soothing guided meditations.
John: Follow me on socials, at JohnClarkTherapy on Instagram. Tick tock and YouTube and apply to work with me one on one at johnclarktherapy. com. Thanks for being here. Let's dive in. Emily Powell is a pre licensed therapist working in the Philadelphia area. Emily works with older teens and young adults and empowering them to become the most authentic version of themselves.
John: Emily, thank you so much for being on the show. And yeah, I really, really appreciate you being here and being up for this.
Emily: Yeah, thank you so much for having me. I'm [00:01:00] excited to get to chat
John: today. I had mentioned that I came across your, your stuff on Instagram. You make a lot of really great therapy content, also some great content around parts, IFS, some of which we'll get into today, but yeah, I'd love to hear just a little bit more about kind of who you are and how you got here, and then we'll get into our topic kind of exploring themes today around IFS and early attachment wounds as they impact young adulthood.
Emily: Yeah, sure. So, I am a relatively new therapist. This is my second full year and I'm loving it, and I always knew that there was more to therapy than just like the cognitive stuff, but I didn't have the language or the understanding or the training to really know exactly what I was looking for. And, you know, year, starting the year two of my practice, I stumbled across IFS, you know, it's kind of everywhere at this point.
Emily: Yeah. And I, I [00:02:00] dove into the IFS CA stepping stones and everything just made sense to me. I had started with a more psychodynamic relational type approaches I knew that CBT wasn't where I wanted to go with my practice just based on my own experience with CBT and finding IFS was just the perfect Mix of everything that I wanted, like psycho spiritually and relationally.
Emily: So I'm definitely, I'm at the early stages still, you know, just out of the four month training, but I'm so excited to see where I go with it.
John: Yeah, that's, that's wonderful. You know, I'm right there with you in terms of the model. having so much to offer. As some have put it, it's one of the most complete models and actually integrates a lot of the pieces that you mentioned.
John: You know, my original training was psychodynamic and interpersonal and then went on to [00:03:00] do a lot of C. B. T. Work. And there are elements of those within I. F. S. Or even as we think about relationally are tying in this piece about attachment, which attachment is so is very in vogue right now, you know, kind of in the therapy world.
John: And I think a lot of our clients are learning about attachment and they're coming into the office and going, Hey, I read this article and I think I'm like anxious avoidant attachment. So like, how do we fix that? You know? So a lot of times. I think our, our clients come in because something is not working like in one of their relationships, right?
John: And so they're coming in saying, Hey, I've got this, this problem, or whenever my partner and I fight, I get really scared they're going to leave me, even though they say they're not going to. And, um, and then that's becoming overwhelming for my partner. So what do I do? I'm guessing that sounds kind of familiar to your work with young adults.
John: Yeah.
Emily: Yeah, exactly. So a lot of people come to see me when they're struggling with, like, these repetitive [00:04:00] relational cycles, right? So they're like, I keep having these really similar relationships, and the ending of the relationship feels the same, and I feel the same in the relationship, and the only common denominator is it's me, and I must be the problem, and it all has to do with myself, and that's where we see so much of the shame coming up and the work that We get to do together is really understanding like the protectors and the exiles that are coming up based on these really young and vulnerable attachment wounds and exiles.
John: Yeah, maybe we can talk a little bit about external versus internal attachments, right? Because the external is a lot of what I think we as therapists know about and clients kind of hear about. And, and then in IFS work, we're really working on this internal attachment piece between parts and, and self, right.
John: And can create these beautiful repairs, you know [00:05:00] through the work, which will then by kind of second order change, help clients with the external piece, right. With their partner or whatever it is like, right. That brought them through the door in the first place. Yeah,
Emily: yeah, exactly, which is so beautiful to get to witness that like internal to external shift that happens.
Emily: But yeah, I think there's so much to discuss there. I mean, the way that our parts relate to one another and have strong feelings towards one another. And then when we enter into this self mode, this newfound curiosity and compassion that we can really tend to these young attachment wounds, like I was mentioning.
Emily: It's quite profound.
John: Yeah. I think at a fundamental level attachment is kind of like , do I matter? And will you be there for me when I need you? Right. And so in the case of [00:06:00] Ifs, we're often going in and working with what can tend to be really young, vulnerable parts that were very much left behind or when we're doing the work and a client encounters one of these parts, it can be like this, this meeting for the first time, or even parts that have anger around, like, well, where the hell have you been where, while I've been here left behind or in the corner or locked away in the basement or whatever it might be in the case of, yeah, yeah.
Emily: Yeah, yep, exactly. So a lot of the work that I do, I was mentioning to you before, is working with adult children, like young adult children, 20s, 30s who grew up with emotionally immature parents. So in a lot of ways, these really young parts did not get their needs met, for whatever the reason. Whether the parent, whether there was, you know, significant abuse or neglect, or the parent was absent for whatever the reason, emotionally absent.
Emily: So, yes, to working with, [00:07:00] you know, the internal attachments that form in relation to how our clients perceive themselves. So, like, a lot of shame, a lot of protective parts in relationships A lot of firefighters. I work with a lot of, you know, disordered eating over exercising substance, all of those things that come up when we start talking about all this.
John: Yeah. Yeah. There's, there's this piece that I see quite a bit around feeling like a burden and fearing being a burden to others. Right. So I was just helping a client this morning around this fear of basically like ending an apartment lease with a friend. Right. And so you have this situation that is on.
John: You know, at first glance, like something that is benign writer, like, you know, something that isn't necessarily catastrophic, but depending on [00:08:00] your history, your background is these pieces around attachment, a big piece around trauma rights and This idea of like when I have needs, it's a problem for others or it's a big problem for others, right?
John: Or going back to primary caregivers, right? Or I have
John: food or it's I can't believe you're hungry again, right? You know how much this food cost or whatever it is or some mix of reactions, right? And so then this little kid goes, well, I better either not be hungry or figure it out myself or don't tell anyone or start hiding food, you know or whatever it might be.
John: Right. But
Emily: yeah, yeah, exactly. And I think, you know, that's where a lot of the people pleasing and perfectionism comes up, which I love working with like this idea, especially in terms of people pleasing that we have to kind of suss [00:09:00] out our parent or caregivers. mood that day to see, like, can we assert our needs or are we going to have to keep this one in and constantly worrying about, like, how the caregiver is going to react and then seeing that impact so many, you know, adult relationships of feeling so empty and, like, misaligned in the relationship, but not knowing why.
Emily: And it goes back to like, these basic needs are not being met emotionally, physically, sexually, like whatever might be coming up.
John: Huge. Yeah, this is huge. Yeah, and another one is like you know, let's say, you know my client is like having a really good day and then their partner comes home and their partner is not having a good day.
John: And then there's something that happens inside her, I'm like, well, I should probably not be having such a good day all of a sudden. My partner is sad and I'm happy but I should [00:10:00] be sad with them, right? Or it's a, it's an assault or whatever to, to be happy when they're sad. And so I need to, I need to kind of become that, right.
John: And then you see this idea of people kind of losing themselves in a relationship or this enmeshment kind of piece that happens or same thing with a caregiver. Right. It's like I can only have. My feelings when mom's in a good mood or whatever. And so we do a lot of concealing and a lot of kind of shape shifting to try to stay safe, right?
John: And then the line between me and you becomes extremely blurred, right? And Yeah,
Emily: yeah, and I think again that goes back to the Emotional immaturity which I know that's kind of like a I mean for me That's a newish term based on the book and every everything that I think it's Lindsay Gibson put out But this idea that, like, as a child, we have to actually [00:11:00] regulate our caregivers emotions because they're unable to do so for themselves.
Emily: So if mom is super upset, like, we're expected to be this parentified child in tending to mom's needs which again becomes an exile that we can work with, and, I mean, that's That's one of the reasons I love IFS and PARTS work, is it's so, um, like, non pathologizing and it just goes back to, like, we, there were all these needs that we didn't get met and there's a reason that we have all of these parts of us and it just feels so liberating, especially for Bye bye.
Emily: some young adults that feel so confused about like who they are and why they feel this way. It feels, it's always a powerful model, but just this age group also, it feels so, so meaningful.
John: Yeah, I think a lot of folks come into therapy wondering Am I broken or how broken am I? And even this kind of classic [00:12:00] views on attachment around like you kind of inherit an attachment style from your primary caregivers at an early age and it's a bit of a life sentence.
John: Right. It's like it happened and also, you know, I'm also a parent of a young child and there's that anxiety too, of like my child cries. And then like one book tells me to like wait it out a little bit. Another says, go in right away and comfort, you know, and it's like every little moment you're going, am I ruining my child and their attachments?
John: Because of so much of this. This talk in this literature around like you got one style and that's it. Or even for two adults, like you've got this style, you've got this style and like, that's just, they're, they're incompatible or it's always going to be this hard or whatever. Whereas again, you know, IFS really turns that on its head and looks at this internal attachment piece between part and self, which then when we work on that piece, when we heal that piece, when we repair those internal attachments.
John: And help clients access more self, [00:13:00] they go into their relationships having a deeper sense of peace and calm and connectedness inside, um, so that when we're with our partners, it's not like part to part, right? Or like scared, anxious, vulnerable part to scared, anxious, vulnerable part or angry, you know, protector part.
John: And then this like this back and forth. You know that we get into their partners
Emily: Yeah, absolutely and it's speaks to the power of like Multiplicity right? Like there's one part that feels anxious in this relationship and it's not all of you and it doesn't mean that it's It's who you are at your core, right?
Emily: and I think back to the kind of pop culture attachment conversation, I think you know, there's a very easy, like quickness to like diagnosing people with a certain attachment style and that's not stagnant. And people get very stuck on that just like we do with like [00:14:00] diagnosing and labeling and all of the ways.
Emily: And there's so much room for movement and growth. Using IFS and like any, I think a lot of relational models.
John: Well, it's just so darn tempting to put it into like a quiz on your website of like, find out which style are you just like, you know, on Facebook, it's like, find out which Disney character you are, like what type of pasta you are.
John: It's like, people want to know and be like, see, there it is. There's the thing I'm anxious, avoidant. And that's like this silver bullet thing. That's going to explain my entire life or whatever. Like we're always kind of looking for that. We're always looking for answers. Right. But a lot of times, you know, clients are looking for like one sweeping kind of like reason for why I am the way I am or why, you know, these three relationships have all ended this way or why like I had, like, let's say, you know, I was in a relationship where someone was mean and hurtful and critical and I keep seeking that out, you know, what's wrong with me that I keep seeking that out.[00:15:00]
John: And, and,
Emily: yeah, yeah. There's definite, a definite, like. self diagnosing thing happening on Instagram and TikTok, and you know, a lot of people come to therapy, especially young adults who are like struggling with their identity in some way, with like, I think I have X, Y, and Z, or like, I think I might have You know, social anxiety or whatever it might be and for me It was so liberating to realize like these are just parts of us that are trying to get their needs met this is so human and yes, for some it can help to put some sort of label to gain understanding and clarity around it, but At the end of the day, it's just like human responses to The stuff that we have to go through
John: in our lives.
John: Well, you go back to like a perfectionist part, right. Or a client with a strong perfectionist part. And I've probably used this example in another episode [00:16:00] maybe, but you know, a lot of times it's like people are also looking for like some big T trauma that happened in my life that made me the way I am versus like, let's say you have an adult client.
John: Who has a really strong perfectionist type in the way that's showing up is they're really anxious. They're anxious all the time and they really fear screwing up at work or whatever it is. And now they're having sleep issues or whatever. So that's kind of like why they come in. That's the symptom. But in light of this perfectionist part in, in.
John: Inviting them to go inside, connect with that part, get to know it. Like maybe you go back to this memory where I had a violin recital and I played, I had practice as much as I could. Like I thought I was going to do really well and I played and I missed a few notes and then on the car ride home, um, my parents just didn't say much.
John: Right. Right. Or I came, they, you know, they came backstage after the thing and there was just a sense of like, yeah, you missed a few notes, didn't you? And so then [00:17:00] a child who is fundamentally wondering like, am I lovable or not? Or what do I need to do just to be lovable in the eyes of the people who are here to keep me safe and loves and all this stuff.
John: So Cool. Then learns or a part learns that in order to be lovable or stay lovable I need to be perfect or as close to perfect as possible And so next time I need to not miss a note So then I go home and I start practicing three times as much as I ever did fast forward 20 years later Whatever then, you know, I I live in San Francisco Silicon Valley.
John: It's overachievers and perfectionists, right? And people that are profoundly driven Right. And I see a lot of that as parts, right? Like, why do you need to be so perfect and be the best? Or what would it mean if you're not the best software developer in Silicon Valley? And it feels so high stakes to them, right?
John: But then you go back to that moment of just something as kind of benign as, as that, like a parent's disappointment. And you might go back and work with that part and be [00:18:00] with that part. And there might be some work to be done there where that part Got stuck and was frightened and polarized and has been kind of driving the bus ever
Emily: since yeah Yeah, I love that example.
Emily: I think that's a perfect Demonstration that this doesn't have to be about like the quote unquote big t trauma. This is about Human connection and the way that sometimes for whatever the reason and not to blame anybody, but we didn't get our needs met I think a lot of times this conversation can activate people's parts, especially parents.
Emily: I'm not a parent yet, so but I can imagine like parents listening and being like, Oh my God, what if I do like this one thing, am I going to ever mess up my kid? And it's not. Always like a blame game or pointing out like what you lacked as a parent or what you didn't do, right? Yeah, it's just it's just life and like the way that we're trying to deal [00:19:00] with all the all the parts of the External world too.
John: Yeah, and into that end, you know something i'm kind of learning practicing Very imperfectly as as a parent really a new parent is Knowing what it feels like in my body To be led by a part. And this is kind of like, you know, IFS is not real skills heavy, the way of like dbt become in or whatever.
John: It's like skills driven kind of models, but in IFS, like just getting to know what it feels like for me to be in a part, or if someone like, if someone in my life sends me a text and they're like, john, we need to talk like that's going to bring up parts, right, right on who it is. And so I might get that text and all of a sudden my body does a few different things, right?
John: Like my stomach clenches goes like this. My throat is kind of tight. My shoulders are up. That might be a part, right? Getting ready [00:20:00] because part of me fears we're in really big trouble or I'm being sent to the principal's office, even though it's like a buddy of mine, like wondering if I've seen his shoes or whatever, you know, like, I don't, I don't know what it's going to be.
John: Right. But helping. Our clients understand those cues and when a part is kind of there and a part is up. So doing that in the session very moment to moment to kind of practice like, yeah, just, just knowing what that's like to, to be, to be in a part.
Emily: Yeah. Yeah. I think so. The words that I didn't have when I was like in grad school or when I first started learning that I wanted to be a therapist was like, The cognitive versus like the somatic and body centered approaches.
Emily: And that's why I love IFS as such an experiential approach. Like this is a whole body, like mind spirit approach. And as somebody who has very strong intellectualizer parts, I have to notice that for [00:21:00] myself all the time too, even with like what's coming up between me and a client during session.
Emily: Because what I've noticed is our intellectual parts can really click and we're like, Oh yeah, that makes so much sense. And like, Oh, we're bringing it back to when this happened with your mom. And it feels really good. And like our intellectualizer parts get really connected, but I'm like, wait, this is not my self mode.
Emily: Yeah.
John: It's not the deeper work, right? It's not when we're here to really deep healing work. That's. Yeah, that's not quite it. Although it can be helpful. And to your point, yeah, you know, both of your intellectual part and their intellectual part are really liking this, right. And it's actually, it's emotionally, it's a lot safer than kind of going inside and going there or going to that painful place or going to that violin recital, right.
John: And actually being there and stepping in and being with that part versus like, Oh yeah, my parents were really critical. And so that makes sense. Why I'm. [00:22:00] Such a perfectionist, quote unquote, right? It's like, okay, we've got that, right? So there's this working hypothesis. We've, we've kind of agreed upon it.
John: Now what, right? Like, what do we do about it? Right. And yeah, so this, like, I think a lot of therapies are kind of insight oriented. And again, a lot of the models that I've used over time would be that right. Or like if If you come at client comes in and says, you know, I feel worthless and you take a cognitive approach.
John: It's like, well, what's the proof that you're worthless, right? Like what a worthless person have this cool job at Google and a partner and this cool apartment like, well, no, it wouldn't. So you can, you can do, you can kind of play around with it there, right? And kind of be. You know, kind of doing the math but there's, there's limits to it, right?
John: Versus like when you say out loud, I'm worthless, what happens in your body or can you connect with the part of you that says I'm worthless and go a little bit further? [00:23:00] What does that part look like or sound like? Where do you find it? How do you experience it? Okay. How are you feeling toward that part?
John: And that's when the work can really take off with, with IFS is actually immediately going in. Focusing on this self depart connection and working there versus like, I need to convince my client that they're not worthless because they have a resume of cool stuff. They've done. So, of course, they're not worthless.
John: Like, you know, just too obvious and they won't buy it because they have all these other protectors, you know, around protecting against feelings of worthlessness, right? Protecting an exile, getting flooded with shame, worthlessness, They're worthless. Abandonment, whatever it might be.
Emily: Yeah. And like in that example, I suppose from the therapist and that would also be a part.
Emily: Of them with an agenda that feels uncomfortable with their client feeling worthless and is just trying to convince and convince and convince like no I see you you're not worthless [00:24:00] and we know in reality like there's other protectors up that Are not really going to be like receptive to what the therapist is saying
John: Yeah, and even if the client did buy it then all of a sudden in order to keep In order to not feel worthless, I have to keep coming back to my therapist for my therapist to keep telling me I'm not worthless, right?
John: So there's that piece too, where we have to be mindful of the power we hold. And again, in the psychodynamic model I was trained in, you take the same issue around worthlessness and say, well, I just need to wait for the client to play that out with me. So we have this. Enriching relationship and this attachment between the two of us and eventually they play out, you know, this worthlessness stuff with me and once I have built enough relational equity here I can provide a corrective emotional experience that they would internalize and then take out into the world.
John: And it, it, it does happen and I've done it and it [00:25:00] has. I've seen it happen. It might take at least nine months to get there, whereas with IFS it might take one session. I don't, I've seen it happen, you know right off the bat and just really taking this stance of people have everything they need inside to heal and have a propensity toward self healing when we get them access to self, then self goes in and knows just what to do to help that, that, that, that poor scared girl at her violin recital or whatever.
Emily: Right. Yeah, I, I love that idea that we all have the innate capacity to heal. It's so liberating, and it's so radical in the world of pathology, and the DSM and all of those things,
John: it kind of takes you know, we all kind of start out with Carl Rogers and this piece of unconditional positive regard and that that's kind of in there, but this is like that [00:26:00] times a hundred, right?
John: It's like, not, not only yes, you know, and IFS like regard your clients positively, but also hold that they have this innate. Capacity for healing when we help them versus they haven't, they have a capacity for healing as long as they keep coming back to me because I'm smart. I have these degrees on the wall.
John: I know a lot. And if you, if you take nine months to attach yourself to me, I can heal you right. By becoming an attachment figure in your life and, you know, basically resonating with you and giving you this feeling that, Hey, you're not worthless after all. And then hopefully you internalize that and take it out there.
John: In your life, right? But inherently the stance is you are not enough and you don't have enough and you can't heal without a powerful therapist like me. Right.
Emily: Yeah. Yeah. And I'm thinking about the way that it's helpful for therapists and other, you know, helping professionals to where there's [00:27:00] not this sense that like this straight path to burnout where like everyone needs me, but like, no, there's, Everyone actually has this capacity to heal.
Emily: We can support them in that. But again, it's not as like, Oh, if they don't come to session this week, like something's going to happen. And like, we have all this power and all this responsibility to somehow like heal every person that we interact with.
John: You, I mean, you nailed it and. I've kind of shared this story before, but that what you just described is why I quite literally burned out a couple years ago and had to take a sabbatical basically where I went from doing ton of clinical work for 10 years to doing none at all.
John: And I just couldn't kind of be that person for all these people anymore, right? And be this attachment figure. And also there's a concealing that we do when we need to kind of be a blank. Slate and have them, you know play out their transference with us. And the weight of that [00:28:00] eventually really got to me.
John: And during my sabbatical, I kind of found IFS and it solved so many problems for me, including that one of like, just like having to be this attachment figure for people and and kind of feeling like it was a bit of a mask to wear versus. It just feels like a way more free and liberated stance in, in IFS.
John: And again, just really honoring that people have self and they have self energy. And we're there to help them access it. And I don't know what to do. I don't know all the answers. I don't know, like five tips and tricks to help you not have a panic attack anymore. Right. So it's, it's really a radical yeah, the IFS talks about the paradigm shift.
John: It is a radical paradigm shift. Yeah,
Emily: totally. Yeah. And I think. It's, it's empowering to feel like it's such an intuitive model, too, where when we're both in self mode, like, it just flows. And it's like a very It's kind of [00:29:00] hard to describe in words, because it is so, like, somatic, I think. But, you ask the part, and the part will tell you, if, if there's not another part blocking it, right?
Emily: So it's just, it feels so natural, and it, it feels like, it does feel so complete.
John: You know, like when I was taught in grad school, it's like, if you are overwhelmed in session, you don't know what to do, then just go back to, you know, they, my faculty would call it the love triangle, LUV, listen, understand and validate.
John: So it's like, okay, you're kind of lost in the session. You don't know what to do. The client's saying a lot, or, you know, they have talking about five different things at once. It's like, just go back to that, like, listen, understand and validate. Like, okay, I can kind of do that in IFS, like for me and what I have.
John: What's worked for me is instead of that, it's really my primary job here is being in self energy [00:30:00] myself as much as possible holding self energy. And when I do that, clients and their parts can feel that and going back to that piece about no agenda, they can feel I have no agenda. And then paradoxically the work happens and it's more productive.
John: I did, you know, I did a a demo and IFS demo. And Stepping Stones, same program you went to, I went to and when we started off the session, you know, my, my, my client was like, I don't know, I'm just super overwhelmed today. I have a lot going on. I have a lot to think about. I don't know if I can kind of like, I don't know if I want to like cry today or like go deep or all that.
John: And, you know, there, there are parts of me that wanted to still like do a session or get the practice or even show like the, the staff that I can do IFS and all that. So I'm aware of all those things happening in the moment, but then in, in connecting the self and in that sense of having no agenda, I was able to kind of get there and then communicate that to the client and.
John: And her [00:31:00] parts that I'm totally hearing that there's a lot going on. You've got this, you've got to pick up your kid. You have someone knocking at the door right now, all that's happening. And so I want you and your parts to know that nothing needs to happen today in this session. Nothing needs to happen.
John: She's like, Oh, okay. Okay. Oh yeah. That's, that's good. Yeah. They're like my parts, like kind of appreciate that. Okay, great. So maybe just hang out there with your parts feeling relieved by that. And then of course, by doing that, we were off to the races and she kind of often and found a part and kind of went inside and we ended up working toward this, this great.
John: You know this, this really nice unburdening. And so I think really, really, yeah, really going back to that piece of having an agenda and meaning it is huge. Or, you know, a lot of times I see therapists especially in private practice of like clients coming, they're paying some dollar amount. To be here.
John: And so I got to be really helpful or I got to show them how helpful I can be, or [00:32:00] I got to pull out five worksheets so that they come back, right. And think that I'm helpful and useful. And that's an agenda, right? It's a good agenda. And we have our therapist parts that want to do good and be a good therapist and be helpful.
John: And like, and it does suck to see a client who's relapsing or who is Yeah, making some decisions that are hurting themselves or the relationships or whatever, or a client whose panic attacks are getting worse and not better, and you're wanting to rescue them, right? That all makes sense. All that, all those parts make sense because they want to help.
John: And yet, if we just go in and be led by those parts, then we can often overwhelm a client or shut them down or try to teach them this really cool, you know, coping skill. And then they don't know how to do it and they end up feeling worse about not. And so then they leave that feeling more helpless at the session or whatever it might be.
John: So, yeah.
Emily: Yeah. Oh, you said so much that resonated, even the part that when you were describing the demo and you said like, [00:33:00] there's no agenda or whatever you said to your client, even my parts were like, Oh, that's so nice. Like, Because what other space do we have in this world, other than the space we carve out for ourselves, meditation, sitting, whatever, to just feel like they're There's no pressure and there is no agenda and just seeing what comes up and then sitting with that is revolutionary in today's society.
John: Well, a lot of, a lot of meditation, you know, for folks becomes performative as well. It becomes like, I mean, or not right of like I sit still and I try to just notice my thoughts and I can only do it for a couple minutes and I'm frustrated. I'm not doing it right. I'm not good at meditating versus an IFS.
John: It's like, what if I just sit and close my eyes, go inside and just, Listen, right to, to, to, to, to who's there, what parts are up and just listen with no agenda like that is meditating, right? And it's not this, you know performative thing of like, I got to try to go for [00:34:00] 30 minutes. In this Zen mode, or if I'm not Zen, I'm not doing it right.
John: Or if I'm not calm, I'm not doing it right. Whatever.
Emily: Totally. Yeah, and I think just going back to what you said about like what comes up in your body during that time I think it's a perfect opportunity to check in like for me. I first check in like what is happening just somatically I don't know what part it is I don't know who's here, but I similarly have like the lump in my throat often Related to an exile and the shoulders up.
Emily: Yeah, and then even you know there's no time limit or like certain script we have to follow, but just seeing like, what is that and who's here? And then truly witnessing the like, softening of it. And I mean, I've had like, headaches that are so related to like, my perfectionistic part, or like my, you know, overworking part.
Emily: And just, Truly like clearing them and not having [00:35:00] any headache after like a 20 minute demo session in stepping stones. And I'm like, Oh my God, this is magical.
John: Yep. Yeah. I mean, I'm, I'm like a full convert. I have to tone down my excitement, but yet here I am like started a podcast about it. Cause I guess I can't tone it down that well.
John: That, you know, the curiosity and compassion, right? Or like the go tos, right? So and, and just, just starting there of like, or even, you know, letting your parts know, like I'm here, right. And going back to this attachment piece that you and I like kind of started off with today of like, if I've got a big.
John: You know, thing coming up or a big conversation coming up in this part that's activated and scared and wondering how it's going to go. Just like if I, if my child, you know I don't know, she went back to school today after being away for two weeks and there's going to be new kids there. And like, it's, it's new and different.
John: I got to be on time and, and all that. And what if I forget my [00:36:00] lunch? It's like the same reassurance you would give, you know, a little kid do that inside, do that with your parts, right? Like. I hear you. We're going to get through this together. Right? We're going to kind of figure it out together. If you do forget your lunch, we'll, we'll figure it out together.
John: I know it's scary. You know, I know this is all scary. Sometimes that can be more than enough, quote unquote, to find relief inside. Right? And then over time, this self leadership piece around my parts can it. Can trust me more and can let me lead and if I do forget my lunch, we can figure out a solution, you know, or if I do Screw up at work.
John: We can figure out a solution Whereas for a lot of clients I screw up at work and it feels so catastrophic and so high stakes All the time and that's just such a exhausting place to to be all the time, right?
Emily: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. [00:37:00] And just one, one more thing about, like, the compassion and curiosity. I think we also said this in the beginning, but the power that this has to also externalize to the outside world and the way that we connect with other people and how liberating it can be to lead with, you know, When you are self led to lead with this compassion and understand that like the person in the car didn't cut you off because like they hate you or like because they suck and they're a horrible person like they cut you off because X y and z and they have all these parts and they were activated and it's just for me.
Emily: It's been so amazing in becoming more Like just understanding of the world around me and all the crazy stuff that's going on It's It feels like a weight off my shoulders in a lot of ways.
John: Yeah. I mean, yeah, we could do a whole nother episode about this, but it is quite literally a different way of walking through life.
John: It is [00:38:00] like a worldview to your point. And it has changed my life in that way of like, if I'm, yeah, I'm like ordering coffee and the the cashier is like a little short with me. And that activates a part in me. Like. If we see that through parts, right, or that that person has a part that's activated or whatever, and that activated a part in me, then we can just kind of see that for what it is and really humanize one another pretty much immediately.
John: And I can still see the person as. A whole, right. Versus like this is an attack on me or how dare they, or whatever. You know, we just get into that get into parts being up or whatever. Yeah, it's, it's, it's pretty radical. Yeah. We got we're pretty much right at time here, but I guess definitely let people know how they can find more about you, where they can go, but socials, websites, stuff like that, and then we'll wrap
Emily: it up.
Emily: Sure. So [00:39:00] my socials and my website are Emily Powell Counseling Services, so my name and then Counseling services, and I think that's across Instagram, TikTok, and my website. Very
John: good. Yeah, so people can reach out and, definitely, definitely follow along with Emily and her, her content. She's putting out some really great stuff, a lot of stuff on IFS, parts work, attachment, early adulthood a lot, a lot of great stuff.
John: So definitely follow along. We'll be sure to put links to that in the show notes. And yeah, Emily, thank you again for doing this. I really appreciate it. And thank you again. Yeah, thank you, John. All right. See you soon. Thanks for listening to another episode of Going Inside. If you enjoyed this episode, please like and subscribe wherever you're listening or watching, and share your favorite episode with a friend.
John: You can follow me on Instagram, YouTube, and TikTok at John Clark therapy and apply to work with me one-on-one at John Clark therapy.com. See you next time.[00:40:00]
Connect with John:
https://www.instagram.com/johnclarketherapy/