Welcome to Going Inside - Meet John Clarke, LPCC
Welcome to Going Inside - Meet John Clarke, LPCC
In this episode, I'm diving deep into how Internal Family Systems (IFS) therapy has shaped not just my practice but my entire journey. Join me as I share the profound impact IFS has had on my life and how it continues to transform the way I approach therapy.
Key Topics Discussed:
1. Introduction to Internal Family Systems (IFS):
- I walk you through the fundamental concepts of IFS therapy, explaining the roles of protectors, exiles, and the Self, and how they form the basis of this non-pathologizing approach..
2. IFS in Practice:
- We explore the practical side of working with IFS, from techniques like getting to know your parts to unblending and fostering integration within your internal system.
3. Self-Leadership and Healing:
- I go into the power of self-leadership in IFS and how it guides parts toward healing, integration, and overall well-being. I'll share personal stories and insights from my own healing journey with IFS.
4. Teaching and Learning IFS:
- I share my personal journey of learning and teaching IFS, from intensive training programs to offering consultation to fellow therapists, all aimed at spreading the transformative power of IFS.
5. Future Plans for the Show:
- I share my hopes for the show, including upcoming interviews with experts, deep dives into IFS concepts, and opportunities for interactive learning and demonstrations. I also express my gratitude to my mentor, the late Derek Scott, whose teachings have profoundly influenced my understanding and practice of IFS.
Interview Transcript:
John: [00:00:00] Welcome back to the show, everyone. This is our first solo episode. It's hard to believe. And this show has unfolded quickly. And I'm so happy for the results so far for the feedback, for the reaction and reception that the show has gotten so far, I've been meaning to make this solo episode for a while and just.
[00:00:26] Spend some time with you all and say a bit more about who I am and how I got here, and talk a little bit about IFS basics a bit on trauma in general, just to kind of get us all on the same page and really. Yeah. For you all to get to know more about who I am. So yeah, if you've been following the show so far, thank you for being here.
[00:00:48] It means the world to me. This is not my first podcast. I've done gosh, well over 250 episodes of another show called private practice workshop, where I've been teaching therapists about [00:01:00] business and marketing and the private practice side of things. And My inspiration for this show well, I'll talk more about that, but that is to say that while I'm not new to podcasting, this show is completely new and these connections that I've made with guests and people that have been on the show have been totally new.
[00:01:20] And a lot of them have been cold. From cold outreach which is yeah, kind of scary and humbling. And I'm always surprised when people say yes to be on a new show and even having people that are super well known in the IFS world people like Tammy Sullenberger, Derek Scott see Sykes, Daphne Fatter, and I've got more to come.
[00:01:38] So I'm just so grateful for the reception. Yeah. And thank you for, for being here. So a little bit about who I am. I grew up in the Blue Ridge mountains of Virginia, Roanoke, Virginia, to be exact. It's Southwest. And long story short, I've gosh, I've been out here in San Francisco kind of off and on for, [00:02:00] for maybe 10 years or so.
[00:02:01] And. After practicing for some years here, I came to realize that well, let me first say I was trained psychodynamically in graduate school, which is basically the root of pathology or why people suffer is that we have faulty relational templates and people play those out. With their therapist and the therapist can kind of use that transference to create what they call a corrective emotional experience.
[00:02:30] So that's kind of a bit about psychodynamic work in a nutshell. And that's how I was originally trained some years into my career. In helping clients, I realized that my clients were realizing things about themselves, but not necessarily getting better and staying better. So I went and got CBT trained, cognitive behavioral therapy, kind of the gold standard to some degree of Quote unquote evidence based work.
[00:02:55] And so a very pragmatic approach, you know, people suffer because they're [00:03:00] twisting their, their thoughts are twisted up and distorted and not rational. So it's a very rational approach and it really works to an extent and it really helps people question their own thinking. So I trained in that model as, as much as I could, when I do things, I tend to go pretty deep with them with whatever it is in my life.
[00:03:20] And so with CBT, I went all the way to the Beck Institute for CBT. I trained with Judy Beck. The president of Beck Institute and with her, her dad, Aaron Beck, who is the founder of CBT, the godfather of CBT, which is pretty, pretty crazy. One day he was late for the training and he just said, Oh, it's because the Dalai Lama stopped by my house for lunch.
[00:03:43] And that was a real. Story and not a joke. But I've learned a lot from working with him and and training under him and using the model. It really helped a lot of people. Somewhere around 2016, I realized that although I knew how to talk to clients about [00:04:00] their trauma, I actually didn't really know how to treat it, which is unfortunately a common theme among therapists.
[00:04:06] Something like 80 percent of therapists do not get training in graduate school on how to actually treat trauma. And I'm one of those people. It's just these are early days in trauma treatment, which is hard to believe. So around 2016 I realized, man, I'm not only do I not know how to treat trauma, but I'm having clients talk about their trauma.
[00:04:27] Not knowing that's probably causing inverse effects and kind of putting people back in their trauma and then saying, okay, Well, that sounds really hard and see you next week. Try not to get triggered and just putting them right back in that trauma. So I got trained in 2016 and EMDR, which basically was the first model I had to treat trauma and through that model, We realized that when trauma happens, memory processing stops, which makes sense.
[00:04:58] There's other [00:05:00] important, more important processes to, to take over. And and so an EMDR, basically we have people go back to the memory and then we stimulate both sides of the brain using bilateral stimulation to help the memory move to long term storage. There's also a cognitive component of EMDR.
[00:05:16] You can also kind of incorporate the body. There's a lot more to it, but that's kind of a bit about EMDR in a nutshell. While I was getting, or after I got trained in EMDR, I also went for EMDR as a client to start dealing with some, some of my own trauma Yes. Yes. As you can imagine like many trauma therapists like myself, you know, trauma specialists we got here because of our own personal experience with trauma.
[00:05:43] And that's, that's the case for me. I have a trauma background, a trauma history. You could say fast forward, you know, some years later, six years later, I treated gosh, you know, lots and lots of clients through my practice and treated their trauma using mostly EMDR. [00:06:00] And I opened up a trauma practice here in San Francisco, where I now train new therapists and trauma therapists.
[00:06:06] And we use EMDR and we also use IFS. Let's talk more about that in a second. We use brain spotting, somatic work, lots of different modalities, but the big ones are IFS followed by EMDR. After some time, you know of just kind of being having to be, In the therapist seat for so often and so long, I eventually just kind of burned out entirely.
[00:06:33] And I took a bit of a sabbatical a few years ago from, from being a therapist. And that was very difficult to, to do that and to kind of say, I need a break. One day I was at lunch with a friend who started talking about IFS and I've never heard anyone talk about a type of therapy. I've never had a client be so excited about a form of therapy.
[00:06:54] No one ever talked about CBT like this or mindfulness or psychodynamics or [00:07:00] anything like that, but she was talking about this therapy that had absolutely changed her life and the way she looked at herself. And she just went on and on about how powerful it was. And it was IFS. I remembered a little bit about IFS from graduate school, but all I could remember was that IFS is, is essentially like a internalized family member.
[00:07:21] So like you have your dad's voice in your head and we got to kind of control it. That's not what IFS is at all. And so I learned pretty quickly that I had a lot to learn. I went home and I started learning as much as I could. About IFS and fell completely in love with the model. It answered so many questions I had about other models like CBT and psychodynamics and EMDR.
[00:07:47] It, I took it on as my new model right away and started using it almost exclusively. I will say that I didn't know what real healing looked like until I use IFS and helped a [00:08:00] client go through the unburdening sequence of IFS for the first first time. Then I was even more in love with the model and realized I want to bring this to as many people as possible, both in my clinical work, my role as a supervisor in my practice, and This is the reason for this show is really to bring IFS to as many people as possible and specifically helping people recover from trauma using IFS.
[00:08:25] A bit about my IFS training. So I have done gosh, a lot, a lot of training with the model. I started off with online courses and books. I went through a four month intensive program called stepping stones with My teacher, Derek Scott, I'll say more about him over time and and all this time have not been able to get in with the Institute, the IFS Institute for their level one training.
[00:08:50] There's a major supply and demand issue. And so I've been kind of stuck here in this role of this position of like, I've given myself [00:09:00] completely to the model. I've gone through a program after program. I also help teach now. At Derek Scott's program, Stepping Stones. I do one on one therapy of my own with an IFS consultant.
[00:09:12] So that is kind of how I learned the model is by a therapist doing IFS on me, helping me work with my parts. So I continue to do as much as I can with the model and learning it while being on this never ending wait list. For the Institute in this major bottleneck that they, that they're in. So I think it speaks to the popularity of IFS, how it's exploded and keeps exploding and more and more therapists and coaches and practitioners that get a hold of it.
[00:09:39] Think, wow, this is it. This is, this is real. This is the good stuff. And so it makes sense. There's such a backlog, but it is frustrating. And so for now, I'm what I have to call an IFS informed therapist, eventually Being to be IFS trained is what it will be called. And then eventually IFS certified. But for now I just yeah, that's [00:10:00] where I'm at.
[00:10:00] Let's get into a little bit about what is IFS. So this is really, at this point, the main focus of the show that can and will change over time. But yeah, okay. I have a part saying right now that I should say more about myself. So I'm going to do that. Sometimes I can jump in and kind of get right to down to business, but skip over some more personal things.
[00:10:27] So I think it's important to say I'm gosh, yeah, like I mentioned, I live here in San Francisco with my wife. I have a four year old daughter. We live close to the beach. I am many things outside of being a therapist. And I'm also I love surfing. That's one of my favorite things in the world.
[00:10:46] I am also an actor. I became an actor a few years ago as a lifelong dream. And I finally went for it in the middle of COVID. And I have done a lot with it so far. I have agents in New York and LA and San [00:11:00] Francisco. I've shot national commercials. I've auditioned for big feature films. I'm also a musician.
[00:11:06] I've played drums since I was 10. So being a creative person is really important to me. And IFS has a lot to do with that too, in terms of kind of who we are at our core. Creative is one of what Dick Schwartz calls the eight C's. So there I am getting back into business again, but that's a little bit, a bit about who I am.
[00:11:25] I lately, I love teaching therapy. I love teaching IFS. To the clinicians at my practice and at Stepping Stones. I love being a dad. It's a wild, incredible ride. And yeah, trying to just take life as it comes while also really pushing forward to live out my mission in life. Okay. That's a little something for now.
[00:11:52] Let's talk a little bit about. What is IFS? IFS is a non pathologizing approach, [00:12:00] and there's a real paradigm shift with IFS. So in IFS, we hold that nothing is wrong with you. Or as my teacher, Derek Scott would say, Hey, what if nothing is wrong with you? So if you're depressed, you have a depressed part.
[00:12:15] If you drink a lot, you have a part that likes to drink. So we wouldn't even say alcoholic or depressed person or narcissist or what, whatever it is, people suffer because we have parts that are in distress and are polarized. And are carrying burdens often from long ago. A core premise of IFS is that we are all multiple and we're all made of parts.
[00:12:42] So if you've ever thought, well, part of me wants to go to the gym. Another part of me wants to stay home. Another part of me judges me for staying home and says, you're never going to get in shape. You're always going to be looking like this or overweight. This is why no one loves you, et cetera.
[00:12:58] You can see where that [00:13:00] goes, right. And how a lot of that kind of brings people to therapy. Right. So we're all made of parts and I'll talk about the three types of parts. This is all from Dick Schwartz. But at the center and what's, I think, even more important to talk about is the idea of self self or self energy, authentic self kind of your core, your essence, your soul divine, the divine energy in you.
[00:13:26] Whatever you want to call it. And this is. One of the many beautiful things about IFS is you get to call it whatever you want. But IFS holds that we all have self or self energy and self is characterized by, in part, by the eight C's compassion, curiosity, clarity, creativity, calm, Confidence, courage, and connectedness.
[00:13:49] There's also some peas that go along with those, which I really like, like persistence, playfulness, things like that. So that is who we really [00:14:00] are. That is our innate nature. And there's a well of inner wisdom. Waiting to be tapped into within all of us in a way. IFS is like self therapy where the therapist is really just helping the client access self and bring self to your parts that are hurting.
[00:14:19] That's an oversimplification of the model, right? So the different types of parts are protectors and exiles. Protectors tend to be either managers or firefighters. They're either managers are proactive. In protecting the exiles from getting triggered the firefighters are reactive when an exile has been triggered.
[00:14:42] So managers are like, can be like your inner critic parts that are kind of perfectionistic parts that like to control or plan or get ahead or work really hard or achieve status so that people think we're worthy. In other words, so that our exiles don't get [00:15:00] flooded. and shame doesn't get triggered.
[00:15:03] And then we have firefighters. Firefighters are the ones that are the parts that like to drink or smoke or dissociate or numb out or gamble or have issues around sex addiction, whatever it might be. Those are our firefighter parts of suicidal part is a firefighter part of the part that's trying to douse the pain.
[00:15:23] Right? These parts work really hard to protect our exiles, which are again, the often young wounded vulnerable parts inside of us. These are the parts that are truly exiled and locked away in the basement and the protectors go to great lengths to protect the exile at all costs. All parts have good intent.
[00:15:42] So Dick Schwartz wrote a book called No Bad Parts. All parts have good intent, even our inner critic, even the part that drinks, right? When we get to know these parts we often see how they took on these roles because of extreme circumstances during extreme moments of our lives, [00:16:00] and then it starts to make more sense.
[00:16:01] And if we go toward our parts with openness, curiosity, with love, open heartedness, then the parts tend to soften, they tend to unblend. So that's another big part of IFS. And eventually some parts will kind of unburden. Once they've been updated and brought into the present and we help them release what they've been carrying.
[00:16:23] Yeah, I'll say more about that as we go. Some of the main components that I would consider of an IFS session are one is just getting to know your parts. So if someone is coming in and talking about their anger or they got really angry at their partner, I would say, can you get to know the angry part or the part that holds anger?
[00:16:41] Can we go toward it? I use the body a lot in my work. So, When you think about that fight you had with your wife, when you raise your voice, what happens in your body? Okay. It's this tension in my stomach. Can you go toward it? Can you listen to it? Can you just put your hand on your stomach and say to the part, I'm here.[00:17:00]
[00:17:00] What do you need me to know? It's right off the bat, and it's such a beautiful, compassionate model. It is really a way of life, I would say. When I realized that again, our core is one of love, compassion, curiosity, and all these things, and I can bring that energy to my parts real healing happens. And when I can see other people as Parts and that they have a core self that is good.
[00:17:25] It helps you humanize other people and walk through the world differently with way more compassion than, than ever. So we get to know our parts. And then the other pieces are around unblending. So realizing I am not this part, right? Like I'm not this angry 11 year old or this this seven year old who suffered abuse or whatever it is.
[00:17:45] And a lot of times in conflict, especially in our relationships, Or stressful situations. Or when we feel criticized, a part takes over, we become blended with a part. And that's where a lot of the messes can, can happen in our lives. And so [00:18:00] unblending from parts is a really important part of the process.
[00:18:04] When we've unblended from a part, we can kind of hear its story. Like I said, we can walk through a, an unburdening sequence, which is a really. beautiful part of the IFS model that helps bring parts out of that stuck frozen place into the present. And is there, there are profound healing moments when we help parts unburdened.
[00:18:23] We then want to kind of integrate. So the system, it's really a systemic systemic therapy. So Dick Schwartz came to it as a family therapist and thinking, well, you've got parts and also they operate like a little family, right? So your parts might disagree about how things should be done, right? One, one part says you should go to the gym.
[00:18:44] The other part says we should just stay home and drink. Or a part says, Hey, I should. Have that difficult conversation with my partner. And another part says, no, let's drink until we don't think about it anymore. So there's what we call polarization or what Dick Schwartz calls [00:19:00] polarization. So integration and working with your, your system is part of it.
[00:19:05] And self leadership is really the ultimate goal. So rather than. being led by a part or being in a part. We really want to work towards self leadership where self is guiding and leading parts. And when we're in self, we also have a physical quality that's different for me. It's, I feel open. My stomach is relaxed.
[00:19:25] My eyes soften. I can just kind of see things more clearly and perceive things clearly and openly. Self looks a little different for everyone, but that's kind of the goal. If, if, If you will the good thing is you can get started with the model right now by getting to know your parts by practicing on blending, by journaling, what you discover by making art by tuning into your body.
[00:19:47] And of course, starting with an IFS therapist, whether that's me or someone else, or if you're listening and you're an IFS therapist and you want to start learning and practicing this model I offer. IFS informed consultation so you [00:20:00] can reach out and we can work together on integrating this model into your work applying it to your cases.
[00:20:05] We're going to work with your parts as well as part of learning the model. But if you're interested in those things, you can always go to johnclarketherapy. com and book a free consultation. So just know that. Gosh, I think I'll leave it there for now. But like I said, this episode's been overdue.
[00:20:20] If you've tuned in, thank you for being here. We're going to keep going. I also need your help in continuing to keep going. So if you like the show, whether you're a therapy consumer or a therapist or a coach or whatever do me a favor and just, you know, Share your favorite episode with a friend or with a few friends or gosh, if you have an email list, or if you run a practice that has an email list, send out an episode to your clients or whatever.
[00:20:44] The more you can help me grow the show, the more sustainable this will be for me as part of my, my work and career. So yeah, thank you in advance for helping me. Spread the spread the word. The show is going to keep including, you know, great hopefully what I think are great interviews, [00:21:00] conversations with renowned IFS experts and other trauma therapies like EMDR, brain spotting, somatic experiencing et cetera.
[00:21:08] We're just going to see where it takes us. I'll do more solo deep dives like this. Based on feedback and based on how the numbers do and really going to help you also apply IFS to yourself. We already have a bunch of IFS meditations here on the podcast and also on my YouTube channel, just @johnclarketherapy.
[00:21:25] So you can start using the model right away and working with it. And we're going to see where the show takes us. I also would love to do some IFS demos. So if anyone wants to volunteer for a demo and have me do IFS on you then I would love. To do that. So basically a free IFS session for anyone that wants to do that.
[00:21:43] And then I would just need your permission to put it on the podcast and on the YouTube channel. But that would be, that's really a goal I have is to be able to do stuff like that soon. Cause I think seeing and experiencing the model is way better than me just talking about it. So I want you to see how powerful it [00:22:00] is.
[00:22:00] For now I'll sign off there. I also have a part. I want to say a little more about my teacher, Derek Scott, who recently passed. Derek was an incredible teacher. I was drawn to him right away when I discovered him on YouTube. Also, I felt some connection with him and that we both love to teach. We both I don't know, like talking and kind of making content and putting ourselves out there.
[00:22:23] And I just, Derek was an incredible teacher, I think. And he taught me the model in a way that Really made sense to me and kept me inspired about the model. And then eventually he had me come on board to help teach at Stepping Stones, which is where I help teach now which is an incredible honor and opportunity.
[00:22:43] So yeah, I wouldn't be here if it weren't for Derek. If you want to learn more about him, he has an episode on this channel or on this show and on my YouTube channel. He also had a, has a great YouTube channel just called IFS CA. For Canada and a stepping stone still [00:23:00] exists. So that's a great program if you're looking to learn the model.
[00:23:03] But yeah, I owe a lot to my teacher, Derek. So that's all for now. Like I said Share an episode with a friend, subscribe where you're listening, please. I'm on YouTube at johnclarketherapy. If you want to work with me either as a client or if you're a therapist or practitioner wanting to learn IFS, go to johnclarketherapy. Com. Thanks again for being here and I'll talk with you real soon. Cheers.
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