Somatic Secrets to Healing Deep Emotional Wounds with Marina Shriner
Somatic Secrets to Healing Deep Emotional Wounds with Marina Shriner
In this deeply moving episode of Going Inside, John sits down with somatic coach Marina Shriner for a raw and resonant exploration of how trauma hides in the body—and how it silently shapes our relationships, self-worth, and emotional patterns.
From immigration and war to abusive relationships and business breakdowns, Marina shares her personal healing journey and why talk therapy wasn’t enough. She reveals the powerful truth about what happens when we stop trying to think our way out of trauma—and start feeling our way through it.
Key Takeaways
🔑You can't outthink trauma — Marina shares why healing requires going into the body, not around it.
🔑 The fixer/rescuer part may be protecting your inner child — Learn how over-functioning in relationships is often a trauma response.
🔑Grief doesn’t go away—it waits — Discover how unprocessed grief and emotional pain can live in the nervous system for years if left unfelt.
👤 Guest: Marina Shriner
Marina Shriner is a renowned somatic coach who has helped thousands of clients move through stuckness, regulate their nervous systems, and reconnect with their inner power. Her work focuses on the deeper emotional patterns that shape our relationships, careers, and sense of self—especially around the fixer/rescuer/helper roles we unconsciously adopt.
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Transcript:
[00:00:00] John Clarke: Going Inside is a podcast on a mission to help people heal from trauma and reconnect with their authentic self. Join me trauma therapist John Clarke for guest interviews, real life therapy sessions, and soothing guided meditations. Whether you're navigating your own trauma, helping others heal from trauma, or simply yearning for a deeper understanding of yourself, going inside is your companion on the path to healing and self-discovery.
[00:00:23] Download free guided meditations and apply to work with me one-on-one at johnclarketherapy.com. Thanks for being here. Let's dive in.
[00:00:31] My guest today is Marina Shriner. Marina is a renowned somatic coach and has supported thousands to move through stuckness, unleash their power, and step into unprecedented visionary success in their relationships, careers and life through profoundly transformative body-based approaches that go to the deep roots addressing triggers, emotional healing and nervous system regulation.
[00:00:55] She has mentored thousands of clients through her coaching online courses and [00:01:00] live programs. Uh, marina, thank you so much for being here. Um, what else should people know about who you are and how you got here?
[00:01:06] Marina Shriner: Ooh, thank you for having me. First of all, I'm very much looking forward to it, um, how I got here through my own journey, right.
[00:01:15] I think many, as many of us do
[00:01:17] John Clarke: mm-hmm.
[00:01:18] Marina Shriner: Um, through a lot of childhood trauma.
[00:01:21] John Clarke: Mm-hmm.
[00:01:21] Marina Shriner: And. Yeah, beyond, beyond like family and childhood trauma, there was immigration and war, and um, a lot of those stories in my life and just really being in my head and circling around in my head and trying to analyze everything to understand instead of like, like being in my body, which I didn't even know was a concept.
[00:01:43] So when that came about, it really changed my life and I wanted to teach other people.
[00:01:48] John Clarke: Mm-hmm. That's a good summary, which. There's probably a million little ripples in there, but, um, so did, did you immigrate to the US from somewhere?
[00:01:59] Marina Shriner: Yes. [00:02:00] Um, interestingly for this moment I was born in Ukraine and then when I was two we moved to Israel and when I was 12 we moved to the States and then I was kind of like back and forth Israel and the States, and now I'm in Costa Rica in the States.
[00:02:17] John Clarke: Gotcha. Yeah. Um. A lot of us come to this work by way of our own healing journeys. So that's Yeah. A common story and our healing informs how we help clients. Right. I, I'm so curious in your journey, um, what have you found to that has worked? What have you found that hasn't worked?
[00:02:42] Marina Shriner: You know, I would say everything worked for the right time.
[00:02:46] Like everything showed up in the right time. So when I was in high school, I. I don't know why. I was always like very interested in therapy and I would say to my parents that I wanna go to therapy, but they're like, there's nothing [00:03:00] wrong with you. Why would you go to therapy? It's a very USSR like mindset.
[00:03:05] John Clarke: Mm-hmm.
[00:03:05] Marina Shriner: And um, I ended up going to therapy when I was 18 in college 'cause it was free and that was talk therapy. But we did, so, you know, I could say that. Now I never engage in anything that doesn't have a somatic component. 'cause I know that works the best for me.
[00:03:23] John Clarke: Mm-hmm.
[00:03:23] Marina Shriner: And that's what I really need. Uh, but back then it was exactly what I needed.
[00:03:28] I think if, if I had someone tell me to go into my body, I would freak out. So somatics parts work. You actually have had my own therapist on your podcast who recommended me, and she's the best. Oh, okay.
[00:03:42] John Clarke: Mm-hmm.
[00:03:43] Marina Shriner: And we do, you know, parts work together and attachment stuff. Um, that's, yeah. And inner child work, that has been the most influential for me, I would say.
[00:03:55] John Clarke: Mm-hmm.
[00:03:56] Yeah, that's great. Um, and [00:04:00] yeah, tell me more about how you became a practitioner and started helping clients.
[00:04:06] Marina Shriner: So. When I was a teenager, I participated in a dialogue program, um, between Israelis and Palestinians, and that kind of blew my mind and opened my world to that topic. And really, I think at the heart of it, it's trauma.
[00:04:25] You know, I mean this, the whole conflict and, uh, meeting Palestinians for the first time, like hearing their narrative, sharing mine, you know, sharing narratives and seeing how differently we see things. That was very fascinating. And so when I was 22, I moved back to Jerusalem to do my master's degree, and I took a two year conflict transformation.
[00:04:49] Facilitation program. And then I became a facilitator and I worked for 10 years in facilitating dialogue. And I probably wouldn't use those words back [00:05:00] then of trauma like. Basically we were kind of doing group therapy without being properly trained for it, but it was so fascinating and I always wanted to do that kind of work, but less intensely maybe 'cause it was, you know, very concentrated kind of, um, work was, was challenging, uh, but it was.
[00:05:21] I just loved it. I thrived on it. And so then I started a business in actually health coaching. 'cause I changed my own diet and I wanted to share that. I changed, I started eating plant-based and I wanted to teach that. And I felt very, very stuck in that business as a health coach. And I knew like what I wanted and where I wanted to go.
[00:05:42] I had big goals and dreams, but it felt very stuck. And that's actually where the trauma for me came up most concretely in my life.
[00:05:51] John Clarke: Mm-hmm.
[00:05:51] Marina Shriner: Because I had this goal. It was very clear and just couldn't get there. And when someone, when another [00:06:00] coach introduced this concept to me that I'm having a trauma response in my business, that was so confusing.
[00:06:06] 'cause I was like, well, I've never had a business before. How could I be having. Business trauma. And so that's where I got to learn that trauma responses have nothing to do with the actual events or the circumstances.
[00:06:21] John Clarke: Mm-hmm.
[00:06:22] Marina Shriner: It's more about what's happening in your body. So all of the attachment stuff, like growing up in my family, the way that I did all of that came up to the surface and I, I just felt awful.
[00:06:33] Like every time I would be rejected. For example, I'd spent days in bed. And so that's, I was like, is there such a thing as. Therapy in the body. Like I had no idea that it existed at that time. And then one therapist referred me to another and I ended up doing somatic experiencing for three years. And so much came up there.
[00:06:55] And then I would ask my therapist, can I do this with clients? And she would say, this, [00:07:00] yes, this, no, you know, you need more training, whatever. And so I started. Getting, not somatic experiencing, but somatic training of different kinds. And, um, started working in that with clients. That's what I was always meant to do, I think.
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[00:08:08] Um, I, if you're open, you know, I'd love to hear more about how you found that trauma was showing up in your, in your business.
[00:08:16] Marina Shriner: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Uh, the experience of rejection. What just completely. I mean, just blew me away. Like it, it wasn't, it wasn't like, oh, okay, you know, someone said no, and then someone else will say yes, and it's okay.
[00:08:36] It just was so extreme in my body, like there was such a shutdown and I didn't know that I lived my life dissociated actually. Mm-hmm. Like, I had no idea. Because when you're dissociated, you don't feel anything. From the neck down, it just feels normal. Like this is, this is how I live.
[00:08:53] John Clarke: Yeah. And
[00:08:53] Marina Shriner: then suddenly I started to see like, I actually feel nothing most of the time, which was a [00:09:00] protective, protective, you know, unconscious obviously strategy.
[00:09:05] Um, so, but the rejection stuff would bring, you know, the dissociation just couldn't help me out there. Just everything would flood me and then I would become really activated and in fight or flight, and then I would just go into shutdown and freeze for days. And it was just these cycles over and over again.
[00:09:23] It's like. I can't catch a break. And why is this happening? Why is it so extreme? Like, why, you know, when you think about it, someone says no. Okay. I mean, that happens in business all the time. So that's, that was kind of the portal into seeing like, oh, I need to look at this because I'm having an overreaction.
[00:09:43] So it's such a big trigger for me.
[00:09:46] John Clarke: Mm-hmm.
[00:09:46] Marina Shriner: Uh, and that connects to so many things in my childhood. I mean, from. Like in in, in those times, I think now I'm deeper into understanding more about childhood trauma, C-P-T-S-D, but I was [00:10:00] diagnosed with PTSD from sexual assault, from my first relationship. So to me that was the thing that I would focus on.
[00:10:07] And I think over the years I saw like deeper layers that like what was the childhood blueprint that even drew me to such a, to an abusive relationship.
[00:10:18] John Clarke: Yeah. Yeah, I mean there, there's so much in that too of, um, repeating patterns that are rooted in our, our wounding. It's kind of a classic absolutely story.
[00:10:30] And, and yes, sometimes we can almost see ourselves doing that and also not being able to stop it or change it or escape that, uh, cycle, you know, um, and ending up in that familiar pattern over and over again until we. Do the deeper healing and then can break the pattern. Or, or whatever.
[00:10:52] Marina Shriner: Yeah, absolutely. I think sometimes it's even hard to see it because I grew up with a narcissistic father and it [00:11:00] was, there was a lot of confusion, like there was a lot of blaming me to not trigger him.
[00:11:06] That was. A big messaging in my family from all the women. So that's what I learned to do. Like, don't get small, don't trigger, don't trigger the man, or even friends. And so I couldn't see that actually, that pattern took many, many, actually until the end of my marriage and getting divorced that I could finally see, oh, that's what I do exactly.
[00:11:27] Like my mom and my grandma the same cycle, but I actually couldn't even see that for a very long time.
[00:11:34] John Clarke: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Hmm, you, you mentioned, um, some of the sticking points that would come up in business as well, and something I think of as like things feel really high stakes or they feel more high stakes than they are, right?
[00:11:53] Like, uh, a potential client saying no, or a potential client leaving, or whatever it is, it can feel like a [00:12:00] lot more than it actually is. And the reality is like we're seeing everything through our own, um, parts and our own lenses, uh, and often distorting that into something else. A narrative that aligns with our core wounding.
[00:12:17] Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah. But being in business can bring up a lot of that stuff. 'cause you're, you're, it's just you and you're exposed to these types of moments and risk and putting yourself out there and vulnerabilities. Um. Perhaps more so than when you're working for a company or in a container, it can come up anywhere really, but especially when you're self-employed, it can feel like you're really fully exposed.
[00:12:41] Marina Shriner: Yeah, absolutely. And I think I kind of have a history of, for better or for worse, like putting myself in situations that bring things up to be, um, exposed in that way. And I think, yeah, I think you're right. It can come up anywhere. I mean, we can be rejected in. [00:13:00] Corporate, right, or in a nine to five. But I think there's something about business that's like so vulnerable because you're, especially my way of running my business, it's me.
[00:13:11] Like I put myself out there. So it just feels very intimate. Kind of like how. Our most intimate relationships bring up our greatest wounds and our triggers. It's the same thing. I really put myself out there and I share, like I teach by sharing like how I'm doing now, um, my own story. And I think that's what impacts people the most, but it's also very, very vulnerable and brings up stuff, for sure.
[00:13:36] John Clarke: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Why, why is working with the body so important and how has it been important for your journey?
[00:13:46] Marina Shriner: Hmm. Yeah. Um, trauma is stored in our bodies. Hmm. So much of it is of course, it also impacts our belief systems and our thoughts. And when I started to try to work through [00:14:00] things in my business, I focused on the mind.
[00:14:03] I, I tried to see how can I change my thought pattern or with affirmations and meditation and all these things, which I don't think are bad. But when someone has trauma, it is wired into their body and it's expressed through sensations and emotions. And if we just work with thoughts, we're only covering like 20% of actual change.
[00:14:24] John Clarke: Mm-hmm.
[00:14:25] Marina Shriner: And that's why I kept getting stuck. And when, you know, many people know that over 90% of what we do, like our daily behavior is unconscious. And so where is the unconscious? It's in the body, literally, that's where it lives.
[00:14:38] John Clarke: Mm-hmm.
[00:14:39] Marina Shriner: And so that wiring can be shifted through our body. And in somatic experiencing what it was about expressing the survival energy that hasn't been digested.
[00:14:52] So if you're under threat, if you're going through and it, this can be, you know, a lion chasing you [00:15:00] or a burglar or an emotional threat, feeling unsafe.
[00:15:04] John Clarke: Mm-hmm.
[00:15:04] Marina Shriner: There is our natural instinct is to try to survive. So we either fight or flee. When we're not able to do that, and again, like my interest honestly in my work is much more about repetitive.
[00:15:18] Uh, trauma, relational trauma
[00:15:21] John Clarke: mm-hmm.
[00:15:21] Marina Shriner: That is more emotional rather than, you know, like a acute, like, you know, a car accident. That's not really something I feel super great at working with. I just, I just, you know, from my own experience, like the repetitive emotional abuse or neglect as well, it's very traumatic.
[00:15:40] And so when we feel, and as. Little kids like we don't feel that we can escape it because it's from our parents, the pe, the very people who are supposed to keep us safe. And it's very, very subtle and many of us don't realize, like clients who come to me that just feel stuck. Like they feel stuck in their career, they feel stuck in their [00:16:00] relationship.
[00:16:00] They don't understand like, this doesn't make any sense why I had a fine childhood. And then we really look at it and we see that it wasn't, um, and then you're not able to. To leave for whatever reason or to fight it because you're a child and you're very vulnerable, and as a, as a child, you're even more.
[00:16:19] Vulnerable to it than as an adult because of course you, you know, you don't have that, that power of choice, the power of agency, all these things, that energy, that is a natural response gets trapped in the body because we would go, we would, it would come up and then it's not getting expressed. Literally, like we're not running, we're not hiding.
[00:16:44] Then we go into freeze. Which is uh, which is, you know, according to polyvagal theory, there is a hierarchy, meaning like a sequence of events that is naturally unfolding in the body. The line comes, we're trying to fight or flee when we [00:17:00] can't. Then we freeze, kind of play dead, which is survival, like it's very helpful.
[00:17:06] Um, but, but as adults then all of that gets trapped. So the responses are basically you're responding from a five-year-old or from a 10-year-old when you're triggered. And when you have childhood trauma, it gets triggered even more. Um, and yeah, it's, it's really tricky to work with, but when, when you're working with the body, that's the source that's really where.
[00:17:30] All of those responses are trapped. And so when you work through them with energetically, meaning like literally, okay, now imagine yourself running away or leaving and like allowing the energy to play out. But then there's the emotional part. Do you have grief here? Do you have rage here? That's how the body learns.
[00:17:50] You can't tell the body, oh, but it's done. It, that that experience is over, the body still feels, and the body believes that it's not over. So you [00:18:00] have to play it out. And then when it, with a safe person, I, I find that very, very important. And then when that's over, then you can feel like, oh, okay. Now I'm not gonna respond in my life from the five-year-old state because I'm actually, that part of me has been integrated.
[00:18:18] John Clarke: Yeah. Yeah, that, that's well said. Um, the body needs to complete its response, and when the thing is happening, we're unable to complete that response or to really consolidate and make sense of the memories that are being formed in that moment and the story that is surrounding the whole thing. And so, yeah, I, I started the SE practitioner program a couple years ago and somewhere.
[00:18:48] I'm still somewhere in it. Um, and so much of it is, yeah, allowing for the rest of that response to happen in a slow, steady, titrated [00:19:00] way. Um, the body knows what to do, it's just, it couldn't fully do it there at that time. Yeah,
[00:19:08] Marina Shriner: exactly. Um, and the, the emotional part is the most interesting to me because.
[00:19:16] I'm very highly sensitive and all of my clients are too, that sometimes they don't recognize it, but they realize it in the process and. It's even more important for us, like it's, it's very, very traumatic for us if we don't have caregivers who actually provide space for that. So I think for the average person that is not highly sensitive, it's of course important for everybody.
[00:19:40] John Clarke: Mm-hmm.
[00:19:41] Marina Shriner: But for us, it's even more important. It's like an even more important need because of course every child has kind of different needs and when we don't get to have a safe. Space to feel our emotions. The messaging is like, you're too much or you're not enough, [00:20:00] and shut down everything. Shut down the feelings.
[00:20:03] So we either disconnect from the feelings or we just totally merge with them, and then they take over everything. Like we're not able to just be present and have a safe relationship with our emotions, which is something I had to learn. Probably forever going to keep practicing. Like it's not perfect.
[00:20:23] John Clarke: Um mm-hmm.
[00:20:24] Marina Shriner: It, it's very tricky. And it's so interesting, I think to, when I meet people. I've met so many people who have done a lot of work, but not that work. Like they haven't worked with their emotions. And you can really tell like there's. Yeah, there's so many kind of behaviors that are, um, yeah, really fascinating to, to know.
[00:20:47] John Clarke: Well, they've
[00:20:47] kind of worked around it and, um, done a lot of work that's kind of adjacent to that piece, but we, we do a lot of demonizing our feelings and habituating around running [00:21:00] from them or not feeling them, or, you know, I was talking to, um, a group last night around. The experience of being a man and repressing our feelings and not feeling them to the point where a guy who was sharing said, well, I eventually had a heart attack.
[00:21:16] Right? Which is like the ultimate shutdown. And, uh, just so much we, we'll just go to great lengths to not feel our feelings, you know? And then part of how the therapy can help is touching into that pain a little bit at a time, in a way that's not super overwhelming. And gives people the sense that I, I actually can do it and my feelings have utility or, uh, there, there's a reason to, to feel them and let them move through me.
[00:21:50] Um, but also there's fears around like, getting stuck there for too long or it'll, it'll overwhelm me or whatever. Um, and to your point, like at some point it was very much [00:22:00] not safe to feel your feelings or to show it or whatever. So there's like an incredible amount of masking that goes on. All the time, you know, or even like my clients who work for big companies and like having to white knuckle it through a meeting where they're on the verge of a panic attack or they're being shamed by their boss or whatever, and just have to go, yeah, yeah.
[00:22:19] Don't worry, I'll get right on it. No problem. You know, there's so much of that kind of self abandoning that we have to do to just get through life, and then it's like, well, where does that energy go? It's like grief, you know? I think about grief. It's like. That, that's like stuck energy. And where does that energy go if we don't metabolize it?
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[00:23:27] Marina Shriner: Grief is the theme of my year. And I think, I mean, I'm just observing that so many people are. In that this year? Yes. It's very interesting. Mm-hmm. I think it's like collective, I mean, like all my three mm-hmm. Countries are dealing with that and more countries, obviously in the world, but, um, big conflicts in my, you know, three countries of origin.
[00:23:51] John Clarke: Yeah.
[00:23:51] Marina Shriner: And so collective and individual, it's, yeah. And we, we have to, and we can't do it in big chunks. 'cause that's where we [00:24:00] then go into the free state. Like we have to collapse, like you said. Yeah. The titration and just doing it in manageable pieces.
[00:24:08] John Clarke: Yeah. Yeah. Noticing the breath there. Um. Again, I just like, something I love about working somatically is we don't have to kind of make sense of the grief or pick it apart or analyze it.
[00:24:25] Uh, but a lot of clients come at this from this top down approach of like, I'm here to kind of figure stuff out or like, decode my grief or my trauma or whatever. Whereas so much of it instead, and what I invite them to do is it's more about being with it all. Being with the part of you that was hurt and wounded and back there and abused.
[00:24:48] And the part of you that's perfectionistic and the part of you that's holding onto the grief and the part that fears that the grief would be too much if I actually tapped into it today. Right. And if you could just be with all of that, [00:25:00] then it helps you move through it and get into the kind of, um, stream of life again, which is full of grief and pain and joy and happiness and all these.
[00:25:12] Things, right? Like I, I had a client yesterday who, um, was very much in fear for most of the session, and then had at the end kind of had this like fear about not being able to feel joy. Whereas even just a few moments ago, they were feeling joy when talking about their, their family. And so we had that touch point like right there.
[00:25:35] Like it literally just happened and. Can you hold the, in this moment or in this session, you felt fear and joy back to back. Both of those things are in there and they're fleeting and they're, you know, neither of them are forever. But there's always this fear that like, my pain is, the painful feelings are gonna be for forever, right?
[00:25:54] Or if I go there, it's gonna kind of like give it more space, or I'm gonna get [00:26:00] stuck there, versus really metabolizing what's already there and what needs to be felt and honoring that. Life is scary and, and painful and there's loss everywhere. And we either like feel that and move through it or it kind of follows us around like this monkey on your back, you know, or the bo the body, you know, takes it on, right?
[00:26:22] And it creates disease and illness and all that. But we, you know, growing up in, in the western world, like, you know, we don't really wanna see it that way. Yeah, absolutely. We still have a very long way to go, so yeah, it would sound a little crazy if you pitched that to a medical doctor.
[00:26:40] Marina Shriner: Some. Yeah, some are.
[00:26:41] I agree with you. Some don't see it at all and some are kind of seeing it. I think, um, one of the most helpful concepts in se is having enough resource or enough safety, and I think when I think what gets compounded by childhood trauma is. [00:27:00] That the invalidation, there's a lot of invalidation that we experience in very subtle ways and also bigger ways I think with childhood trauma.
[00:27:11] And so even when a lot of crazy things happen, like I think validating, oh, I'm, I'm actually supposed to feel really crappy right now. Like that's actually kind of normal. Um, that's really hard to do when you've heard a message that you're bad, you're wrong. You did this bad. You did. And so you're used to kind of doing that with yourself and that that takes away safety and resource that lets you be with the emotion.
[00:27:43] So that's like an added layer of challenge there.
[00:27:46] John Clarke: Well, we're obsessed with control. We're obsessed with controlling things and this. Sentiment culturally that we should be in control all the time, or like a competent, successful person is in control all the time, [00:28:00] you know? And so it's like, even like having self-control, quote unquote, or control of your emotions is just a weird kind of backwards concept, right?
[00:28:08] Versus against someone who can, uh, fluidly move through their feelings and feel them and be with them, and then decide how to respond. Right, like you were mentioning the business stuff, right? Like if a client leaves, you might feel some not enoughness or some grief or confusion or sadness, and the more you can be with that and feel it and let it move through you and honor that that's in there 'cause you're human, the sooner you can decide how you want to respond to that or honor the both end, which is like you might be both sad that the client's leaving and you totally get it and you're happy for them in their next thing.
[00:28:44] You can honor both of those and say it out loud and the more you honor and just validate your own system like that, uh, it's like, you know, keeping your shadow out in front of you. You know, it's like, of course, you know, my, my first IFS mentor Derek [00:29:00] Scott, it's just like, of course I'm feeling those things.
[00:29:01] Of course there's a part of me that's sad that you're leaving, you know of. Of course I am, you know, have parts that feel rejected or whatever. Um, and the sooner you do that, the sooner it just kind of softens. So, yeah.
[00:29:15] Marina Shriner: Yeah. I love what you said about like how. We can have access to decision making so much better when we just let the emotions flow.
[00:29:29] And it's, it's much easier said than done. I mean, I find myself constantly still struggling with that and, um, also feeling exhausted by many, many emotions or a lot, a lot, a lot of grief. It's very exhausting. Um, and then finding like, oh, but if I have a big cry, for example. Then I feel so much better and I feel like that resistance is gone.
[00:29:52] I can, you know, move through things. I can make decisions. Um, yeah, but that still arises that resistance to like, [00:30:00] oh, I can't, or it's, you know, it's draining. Um, yeah.
[00:30:07] John Clarke: Well, yeah, it's, it's, um, it's like which one requires the less energy to kind of like. Fight it or control it or to be with it and kind of let it move, move through you, right. Or kind of redirect that energy.
[00:30:22] Marina Shriner: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah.
[00:30:25] John Clarke: Yeah. Um, I know that, uh, yeah, with the, with the time we have left, um, we also talked about how this shows up in relationships like our adult relationships, or let's say romantic relationships, especially in the vein of like the parts of us that wanna rescue or fix.
[00:30:42] Or, or, or whatever. So, yeah. What, what else comes to mind around that?
[00:30:45] Marina Shriner: Yeah. The moment that you said control, that really came up for me because mm-hmm. Um, one of my mechanisms as a kid was to be very hyper vigilantly, observant of what everybody [00:31:00] was feeling, and then doing what I can to make them not feel that, you know, to prevent my dad from exploding, to prevent my mom from being overwhelmed.
[00:31:10] So. Fixing and rescuing. I think it's very common for practitioners as mm-hmm. On our, in our human life, because that's kind of like, we can channel that energy into our work, which is great in a way. Like of course if we're like,
[00:31:25] John Clarke: that's what a lot of us got here is that. That, that fixer, rescuer, mediator part.
[00:31:30] Yeah,
[00:31:31] Marina Shriner: exactly. And of course that can also be toxic. Even in our work. It can, um, I think many of us do a good job with it, like kind of trusting that our clients will get there and just supporting them. 'cause there's like a shadow side on the light side to it. So it's, it's beautiful and like being able to see people and really feel with them and feel them and all these kinds of things.
[00:31:53] But then when we. Get into fixing, rescuing, helping [00:32:00] without being asked. Uh, we can call in some very, very challenging people into our life. People who want to be fixed, people who wanna be fixed are people that have a lot of struggles, and that's kind of what we invite in. And that, that has been a huge pattern of mine.
[00:32:17] John Clarke: Yeah. Well, part of the narrative that happens underneath that is like, someone is upset, I should do something about it. Mm-hmm. And maybe at some point it was mom or dad or whomever, but now it's a partner or a friend or a coworker or whatever, and there's this part of us that goes, I can't stand that this person is upset or sad, or I can just feel their anxiety so I should do something about it.
[00:32:43] Right. It's like, maybe. But a lot of how we get, you know, how we stumble through this is like sticking our hand into stuff that's not really ours or. You know, like, again, even this piece around just like being with someone, it's like, do you want me to be with you in [00:33:00] your grief or your stress or whatever, without taking it on as my own.
[00:33:03] But we lose our separateness very quickly. 'cause at some point for your survival it was, it was essential to blend and merge with that person. So that's the only way you know how to relate and that's the only way you know how to like get love and connection and closeness is to do that. Which basically like selfa abandon, you know.
[00:33:23] And if that hooks into the other person's core wounding, it's like you're a perfect match. Yep. Bonded by your trauma. Perfect hook. There you go. But yeah.
[00:33:32] Marina Shriner: Yeah. It's, it's also fun. It's, it's a very, yeah. Yeah. I think you explained it so well. Mm-hmm.
[00:33:39] John Clarke: Mm-hmm.
[00:33:40] Marina Shriner: Yeah. And I think also when we have emotionally mature parents, which was my case, um, and so many people, um, I love.
[00:33:48] Dr. Lindsay Gibson's work on it. She has a very, um, popular book on emotionally ima children of emotionally immature parents. Oh really? Um, [00:34:00] that is where you know, your parents. Didn't know how to handle their overwhelm or their rage or their sadness. And so that for a child is very overwhelming and, and unsafe, like scary.
[00:34:15] John Clarke: Yeah. Um,
[00:34:15] Marina Shriner: if rage is getting unleashed on them or overwhelm or whatever, they have to find a strategy unconsciously to work. Through that to, to be with that. Um, especially if it's consistent. So sometimes, you know, for some people it's like a period of time or like just a few incidents. That's bad too. But then if it's like a consistent thing and the parent never works on their stuff, and I think this has been a huge pattern for me, is.
[00:34:45] Encountering people who don't, haven't worked on their stuff like my parents and being the one to guide them or teach them or, you know, become responsible for their wellbeing. Where that's, like you said, it's not our job. I mean, [00:35:00] everybody's in charge of their, of their journeys and you can't really, you can't fix anyone.
[00:35:06] It's not possible. And I think how we can recognize that it happens most clearly is the energy. So sometimes doesn't mean you shouldn't help anybody or support of course, but what is the energy in your body? Is it like literally fight or flight? If I don't help this person, I'm going to die. Like that's kind of how it feels like, or something really bad is going to happen to me, or is it like, oh, this is so, so lovely, like just being with this person and you know, being of support.
[00:35:36] It's very different experience.
[00:35:40] John Clarke: A through line underneath. A lot of this is like, in what ways am I too much for people? And this is just like kind of classic exile energy, um, that a lot of us hold. And if at some point you were too much for people like your caregivers, then that's, that's in there somewhere, right?[00:36:00]
[00:36:00] I've got big feelings and that's activating big feelings in my caregiver. As a result, they're shutting down or exiling my big feelings. And so I think, well, I must be bad for having them right? Or I only get connection if I don't have big feelings. My big feelings are a problem for, for me, for, for others, you know, and then that's our template.
[00:36:23] You're, you're, you know, that's kind locked in until further notice. And we maneuver through life with that, you know, until further notice, until deeper healing happens. But I, it just. I think a lot about the difference between empathy and compassion. And empathy is like feeling other stuff as if it's our own.
[00:36:42] And it's almost like your body doesn't know the difference. Right? And empathy can really hurt versus compassion, which is like experiencing some resonance, but in your separateness from the other person. But again, for many of us, it can feel like that's breaking some sort of compact, you know, like some sort of contract around taking [00:37:00] others.
[00:37:00] Stuff on is my own. If I'm not doing that, then I'm not of, of use to them. Mm-hmm. Or I don't really love them or I'm not gonna get love from them, whatever it is. But, and therapists are no different. Right? We, we, you know, it just has a lot to do with our own exhaustion and burnout and codependence with clients.
[00:37:17] So if I really step back and go, um, my heart goes out to this person or this client, and I'm also like in my separateness, um. Trusting that they have what it takes deep inside to get where they're going in life, then it feels very different and they can pick up on that too. Right? I'm in an adult ego state course, you know, interacting with them as an in an adult ego state, it just feels, feels different, right?
[00:37:43] And your self energy. But for so many of us, again, we go in even as therapists and practitioners with this fixer energy, right? That instantly communicates that your client is broken, right? Mm-hmm. Or this rescue energy, like, [00:38:00] okay, so your client is lost, like fundamentally lost, and the power that, like you maybe have the power to like save them, that you're this savior to begin with.
[00:38:09] So it's very, very confusing and very insidious, and we have to just be mindful of those pieces and when. You know, when a client is either really activated and overwhelmed, what's, what's that like for you when a client is really, um, uh, hypoactive or depressed or withdrawn? What's that like for you?
[00:38:29] Usually one of those responses is extra activating for people. Mm-hmm. Whether it's, I've gotta like, get down in that hole with you or toss a rope and get you out of that, which is really more for the, the therapist than the client. Or if this person is really dysregulated, it's like, I gotta regulate you.
[00:38:46] Which is really for the practitioner system, not necessarily for the clients, right. But it communicates like there's something wrong with being this way, you know? Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah,
[00:38:56] Marina Shriner: I love what you shared. I think I would add one more [00:39:00] piece, which I don't relate to, but I think a lot of people do. It's either too much, which is the one I definitely relate to, because when I.
[00:39:09] Had big feelings. It's so interesting. I reminded my dad of his mom and it triggered him.
[00:39:16] John Clarke: Yeah.
[00:39:16] Marina Shriner: He couldn't see that difference. Yeah. He, 'cause my grandmother is narcissistic and she would use big feelings as a form of manipulation. Yeah. Versus me, I'm highly sensitive, so I have big feel like this is just how I experienced the world.
[00:39:33] So it was just like a form of. Truth, like this is what I'm feeling. Not like to manipulate you, but that's how he would take it and that would really trigger him. So for me, I'm always watching still, like this is still something I'm really working on. If I trigger someone, if I trigger someone, there's an immediate threat response in my body and it feels very scary because he would get scary.
[00:39:55] So that's like one end of the spectrum. And then I think for a lot of people, they feel [00:40:00] not enough. So then being the rescuer, of course you're getting your sense of self-worth, which honestly I don't really like that, those terms, self-worth because. What does that actually mean? Mm-hmm. To me, it means you're getting your safety.
[00:40:16] That's it. It's like, I'm gonna be safe if this person is calm and if I'm needed, I'm constantly needed and so I'm gonna continue to do this so they don't leave me. That's, I think, a big piece of, of it too. So, yeah, I really love how you shared that. And again, I think it comes back to, um, what. Part of me, like you said, what part of me is actually showing up.
[00:40:40] And, um, I wasn't trained in IFS. I really like, I like the concept of parts in general, and I really like the concept of just three simple parts, which is the adaptive child, the wounded child, and the wise adult. And the wise adult is. You know, kind, kind of clear. It's like [00:41:00] self-energy. I think in IFS it's just, you're present, you're calm, you're connected to your body, you're connected to the other person, and it mm-hmm.
[00:41:08] Even if you have a big feeling, you're still connected to yourself. Yeah. You're still present with it. So it doesn't take you over and it doesn't shut you down.
[00:41:16] John Clarke: Yeah. And
[00:41:16] Marina Shriner: then we have, uh, the wounded child I think is kind of like exile, maybe the same. The wounded child is really like the original wounding of like what we went through, that part of us.
[00:41:28] And then the adaptive is how basically we coped, how we're able to live in the world and what strategy. And so the fixer is that. Adaptive child. Mm-hmm. And when we're in that, we're literally, you know, we're a practitioner who's five in that moment. Right. Who's five years old. And you can feel that that's, that's why I really like somatics again, because feeling it.
[00:41:54] Is much more powerful to me than thinking about it because the thoughts vary. And of course we have [00:42:00] different thoughts corresponding to different parts too, but I feel like you can really feel that in your body. You can feel, you can ask like that part, how old are you right now? And it could be like, I'm 10, I'm five, whatever.
[00:42:11] Mm-hmm. Um, so that's very, very clear. And then when you're in that, your job is to like show up for that. First. Mm-hmm. So that the wise adult can show up for the client or the friend or whatever, like whoever you're supporting.
[00:42:25] John Clarke: Yeah. Yeah. That's, that's the, that's the way. Um, well, yeah, we are, um, running enough time here, marina, but, um, yeah.
[00:42:35] I just wanna thank you so much for doing this and being here and being so open about your story. Um, what else should people know about you in terms of, um. How you help people, any current offerings, and then of course how they can learn more and, uh, you know, get in touch with you.
[00:42:50] Marina Shriner: What, when is this episode gonna be out, do you know?
[00:42:53] John Clarke: Um, in the next, like two weeks, so. Okay, cool. Perfect. Monday, but the following? Yeah. So that's
[00:42:58] Marina Shriner: perfect. Um, [00:43:00] so I have a program on fixing actually, because as I think we've mentioned, it's quite a deep, broad. Um, there's like so much in there. Emotions, needs, feelings, I mean, so, so many parts of ourselves. So I created a group program, um, it starts end of October.
[00:43:19] It's called The Unburdened Heart. Mm. Um, that's an offering. I've going, I have one-on-one coaching and other things. I have a monthly community called HeartSpace. Um, so you can just check all of that out on either my website or my Instagram.
[00:43:34] John Clarke: Great. Awesome. We'll put links to all that in the description, show notes, and um, yeah.
[00:43:39] Thank you so much again for your time.
[00:43:41] Marina Shriner: Yeah, thank you. It was great.
[00:43:43] John Clarke: Alright.
[00:43:45] Thanks for listening to another episode of Going Inside. If you enjoyed this episode, please like and subscribe wherever you're listening or watching, and share your favorite episode with a friend. You can follow me on Instagram, YouTube, and TikTok at johnclarketherapy and apply to work [00:44:00] with me one-on-one at johnclarketherapy.com.
[00:44:03] See you next time.