IFS Demo Dissection with Sandra
IFS Demo Dissection with Sandra
In this special breakdown episode, John Clarke takes us inside a real IFS (Internal Family Systems) therapy session with a demo client named Sandra. With transparency and depth, John unpacks the nuances of their interaction, from checking in with previously unburdened parts to recognizing a live polarity between imagination and expectations. This session is packed with insights for both practitioners and those curious about the IFS model. Expect honest reflections, subtle therapeutic moves, and rich emotional terrain.
---
3 Key Takeaways:
🌱Discover how a single metaphorical image—like a genie named "Jolly Jeanie"—can illuminate the gifts and limitations within our internal system.
🌱Learn the signs of subtle therapist overreach and how honoring the client’s process can yield deeper transformation.
🌱Hear how the root of a manager part’s strategy often stems from early unmet attachment needs, like being “what mom wants.”
---
Resources & Offerings:
➡️ Download my FREE IFS Resource Library - Get access here: https://go.johnclarketherapy.com/ifs-resource-library
➡️Free Training - Learn how to integrate the principles of IFS into your therapy practice: https://go.johnclarketherapy.com/ifs-webinar-podcast
➡️ 1-Month Grace Period with Jane – Use code JOHN or visit: https://meet.jane.app/john-clarke-ambassador
➡️ 10% Off at Grounding Well – Use code GWJOHNCLARKE or visit: https://www.groundingwell.com/GWJOHNCLARKE
➡️ 10% Off at Dharma Dr. – Use code JOHN or visit: https://dharmadr.com/JOHN
---
Connect with me:
https://www.johnclarketherapy.com/
https://www.instagram.com/johnclarketherapy/
https://www.tiktok.com/@johnclarketherapy
https://www.youtube.com/@johnclarketherapy
---
TRANSCRIPT
John Clarke: [00:00:00] Okay everyone. So, , back by Popular Demand is another, , episode or video where I'm gonna be breaking down a real IFS session I did with a demo, , volunteer. So, call this whatever you want. You could call it a demo dissection. I heard it being called that. , With the Stepping Stones folks. So, , this is basically, yeah, me breaking down the session.
I'm gonna be breaking down what I'm seeing here, what I was maybe thinking in the moment, the different choice points I made in the session. What I might do differently, I. , This time and, , just generally reacting to the work here in the session. So hopefully this is insightful for you, whether you're a practitioner using IFS or you're a consumer.
Just curious about IFS. We're gonna get into it and, , see where it goes. So, without further ado, , let's get into this session. This is session number three with a demo participant, , that we have named Sandra. So let's, let's see where this goes. One thing I wanted to [00:01:00] start with our offer is at the end of last session we were working on unburdening two parts.
And , what we try to do is follow up with those parts after an unburdening and see if we can check in with those parts, find them, see how they're doing. So I'm curious if you're open to, to giving that a try as we start out here. Yeah, sure. Yeah, give it a try. Okay. Yeah, so just see what happens as you shift your focus from the happenings of the day and everything happening externally, and the things swirling around your life, shifting that focus to inside.
Okay, so right off the bat, , this is fairly IFS textbook. So part of the protocol is, , whenever you've unburdened a part, you wanna start the next session by checking in with that part. , At the end of the day, a lot of IFS is about [00:02:00] repairing internal attachment. And attachment is kind of the question of, , do I matter to you?
Will you be there for me? When I need you the most, do my needs matter to you? And this is a way of attuning to that and trying to go from, okay, in the last session where we really tried to repair this internal attachment, can we now tend to it and strengthen it and check on the strength and integrity of that connection and see if it's still there.
, We're also kind of seeing like. Is this part still where we left it? , Is this part still unburdened in the way that we left it or has something changed? Sometimes the parts will kind of reburden or move or be somewhere else, or maybe there was hesitation, , or protect her concerns that we didn't intend to.
So this is a good way of double checking with all that. So I'm just giving her that invitation. Hey, would it make sense to check in with that part? And she's saying, yeah, let's, let's do it. I also know that this client already has a good bit of trust in me because we've done. Now three sessions and they've gone well and her system has been very open [00:03:00] to the work.
She's also pretty experienced with the model even from before when she started with me. And so I'm kind of building off of that. Right. Also trusting that she could say no to me if she wants, which if she said no, that would be really good information. . If it didn't make sense to her to start there. So she's like, yeah, let's do it.
And then I'm kind of doing a little bit of focusing work here to see if, , I can help her kind of focus in on this part and, we'll, let's see where it goes now
and just see what you notice, what parts you're aware of, what parts you can connect to.
Hmm.
Sandra: So I've named, , I've named the two parts. Yeah. There there's a little mis playful and um, and then there's Jolly Jeanie. So Jolly Jeanie is saying that, um hmm. I could make more use of it, you know, that's why it said actually [00:04:00]
John Clarke: Uhhuh. That's interesting. Okay.
Sandra: Yeah.
Other than that. Yeah.
Yeah. I'm just getting the message of just there's more, it's got more to give the imagination part that we talked about last time. It's just like, yeah. There's more, more there for me to tap into.
John Clarke: Uhhuh. Okay. And so, so one of those parts says I have more to give.
Sandra: Yeah. Because I, I, you know, like sort of unblocking the imagination was. It kind of, that's why it comes as a, as a genie, you know, the, the genie [00:05:00] Aladdin who comes out of the bottle. Um, it's, it's kind of like this idea of I've set it free, but Hmm.
Maybe I don't yet trust it enough to Hmm. To you to, to be used anytime and every time. You know, like anytime I want something .
John Clarke: Wow. Okay. So there's a lot in here, and hopefully, again, if you're a practitioner or not, this gives you some insight into the mind of a therapist when we're in session and in these moments.
So I'm hearing that first of all, part of the, the effect of unburdening, this part is access to more imagination. Right when this part is unburdened, now there's more access to imagination. Or imagination is kind of coming from this part, this childlike part. Right. Which is very interesting and makes sense and also is aligned with Sandra's goals for these sessions that we've, we've talked about and what I know about her life and what she [00:06:00] wants more access to imagination, creativity, play.
So all this is kind of making sense. , But now I'm hearing from, she says like, uh, you know, I'm. I'm not sure, or like, I don't, you know, I don't want this part just to kind of run wild. , So I'm kind of hearing that as another part that maybe has concerns about this part, kind of, you know, going nuts with the imagination or the play, right?
Or what if we just become all play right now. So I'm kind of hearing that and I'm not sure what it did next, but let's, let's take a look.
Sandra: That's, that's what's coming up, that I need to give it more chances, more freedom. Yeah. More chances to shine.
John Clarke: Okay. Yeah. More chances, more freedom.
Sandra: Hmm. Is
John Clarke: that something you're interested in offering this part?
Sandra: Definitely.
John Clarke: Yeah. Okay. Maybe let it know that. Okay.[00:07:00]
Sandra: Yeah, just letting it know as well that, you know, a nice little sign or something, you know, would be good when I'm forgetting to use this part in a way.
John Clarke: Mm-hmm.
Yeah. Maybe the two of you could even, I. Decide together on what that sign might be.
Sandra: I don't know. Something came up that, that whatever came up with like pop or something. So I don't know how I will know, but I guess some kind of pop inside I, I guess. Mm-hmm.
John Clarke: Okay. Something interesting there that I'm just noticing is, uh, notice the way that she got that information. It just came to her, which is how I know that she's doing real insight work and not just making stuff up, which is a common concern with with [00:08:00] IFS, right?
I'm just making this stuff up. She had her eyes closed, which doesn't matter. You can do insight with eyes open or closed, but she had her eyes closed and we're connected with this part. I know she's at least somewhat connected with it now. We've done some of that focusing, right, and finding that part, and then she says, well, it's something about pop.
So she doesn't fully understand what that means. But I would take that to mean, the part is kind of saying something about pop, whatever that means is a way that I might get your attention or a way that we might, um, be in lockstep with this, right? This kind of new partnership or collaboration, which is really what it is around imagination and creativity, right?
So. This is systems work, right? We have multiple members of a team here saying, Hey, we, I'm open to renegotiating how we do things around here, right? You've agreed to let me bring more of what I bring to the [00:09:00] table, which is imagination, and here's how we're gonna talk about, or here's the cue I might give you for, Hey, could I bring more imagination here?
Could I bring more play here? And so this negotiation is happening, uh, right before our eyes. Let's see what happens next.
Sandra: That will tell me like a reminder.
John Clarke: Mm-hmm.
Sandra: Maybe like a bubble popping or,
John Clarke: Hmm.
Yeah, that sounds pretty clear.
Okay.
So let me know if it feels right to, okay, here's a mistake I made. I don't know why I spoke. Then if I could do it again, I, I would've just let her keep going because I can tell that she's [00:10:00] doing good work. She's still. Inside doing her own work. She's kind of, , grinning. It seems like she's connected with this part who's talking about the popping, and I should stay outta the way of that.
So I'm not sure why I spoke there. Right? Maybe I had a part that wanted to progress the session or know what to say or was uncomfortable with that silence or whatever it is. . Maybe also my parts that are aware that this is a demo or I'm trying to demonstrate more of the model or more of, um yeah, its potential or my skills or whatever.
So I'm noticing that now and noticing how, yeah, I wish I had just let her work there. If clients are doing good work, get outta the way. I know that and I teach that, but, , I didn't really do it there. So there you go. I'm a work in progress. Let's see what happens now focused on this part,
or if there's another [00:11:00] part that more needs your attention today. So again, I, I, you know, I, , I wish I hadn't done that. And it's not the worst thing in the world to say, okay, are you noticing other parts inside right now that need our help? Right. But I'm kind of assuming that the work with this one, the one about the popping and the imagination is done right.
So, um, I'm kind of progressing. I. Session or trying to progress the session, whereas I should have just hung in there and let her keep working, right? She might work with that imagination part for the rest of the session. I don't know. But again, if she's doing good work, my job is to stay out of the way and only jump in and gently help if she gets stuck or blended.
So, yeah.
Sandra: Hmm. Yeah, I mean. That's all I'm getting is this, this idea of, of, of freedom. Really. Like just Yeah. Just [00:12:00] sense of really giving it, like trusting it and Yeah. Give it freedom. So yeah. I think,
John Clarke: yeah.
Sandra: Hmm.
John Clarke: So interestingly, she's still kind of there, right? I kind of checked in with the other parts that need our attention and she's still with this one saying it's something about freedom and being this part, being able to express freely or be imaginative freely.
So she's still kind of with it, even though I, you know, kind of invited her to, to zoom out. So sometimes, you know, the client system, they lead the way and they should lead the way and they know the way so. Good example of that.
Sandra: It's okay. Yeah, we can,
John Clarke: and I think, how does,
Sandra: yeah. Sorry,
John Clarke: go ahead. Yeah, yeah. Part.
Sandra: No, it's fine. No, it's fine. Well, I think, no, that feels okay for me that it's just, I guess I feel a little bit like [00:13:00] maybe puzzled or about like just don't quite know. Maybe what I can do to give it that freedom really,
John Clarke: I think. Okay.
Sandra: Hmm. Of course the word expectations comes up.
Hmm. That might take us somewhere.
Interesting. Um, expectations. Expectations. That's another part. I think that's very big and that's really been like. I think getting in the way in lots of ways, really.
John Clarke: Okay. We're, we're maybe hearing from another part here on expectations. Right. But she had kind of said the part is like, well, she's not sure how to let the part have more imagination.
What I could have said there is, can you ask the part? Ask the part if it has ideas about how it would like to. Express more imagination [00:14:00] and I have a really good idea that, , you know, the part would probably know and has some ideas. So that'd be an option. We always want to hear from the part. They've got a lot of wisdom to offer and a lot of times they know, um yeah, they, they they know the way.
Right. And you imagine like it's been a long time or possibly forever, that this part has really been heard and been welcomed and offered to see at the table to say, Hey, you matter and you are. Offering of imagination matters and how would you like to offer that, that gift of imagination. Right. And just really taking our time there.
So again, I, I really wish I had massaged this moment more and just allowed for this moment to, to play out more. So.
Sandra: I think it's the expect, the expectation part that's blocking the freedom, I would say.
John Clarke: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Yeah. Maybe keep going with that. See what else [00:15:00] floats to the surface around expectation or expectations? Blocking freedom.
Sandra: Yeah. Imagination part saying you can't, I can't have free reign and, and like be fully open if you have expectations already or some exactly what you want or what's going to happen or you know, like, so I can't. Like give you everything I can give you if I'm limited by your expectations effectively.
That's what I'm receiving.
John Clarke: All right. Again, more interesting stuff here. And what's interesting is [00:16:00] so many elements of IFS are playing out in this session already in the few minute we've been playing for. You know, the first seven minutes of the session, and there's already many, many elements of the model playing out here.
One is a polarity, right? Some hesitance or polarity or disagreement around how things should be done around here, right? Hey, I offer imagination, another part going, , not so fast. Or I'm worried that you're gonna offer too much imagination. That could be bad. We might not meet expectations. Whatever that means.
We don't know yet if you. Are too imaginative and just, you know, head in the clouds all the time or whatever, right? So we're hearing this hesitation and what I wanna do and maybe should do in this moment, let's see, to what degree I do it, is connect both of those parts to self, connect them more to self, right?
So as you notice this part, the imagination part and the expectation part, can you have, uh, are, are, how aware are those parts of you of self [00:17:00] as you are today? Right. And if they're not aware or only partially aware, is it possible to make them a little more aware of you? Right? And how would you do that?
Are you seeing those parts through your eyes or seeing them through a part, right? Are those parts facing each other? And if so, could, could you have them face you or invite them to face you and see how they react? So there's a lot of ways to facilitate this. Again, in a lot of this model is about mediation.
So we're using our mediation skills to calmly and compassionately invite multiple perspectives and encourage a deeper sense of understanding within the system, right? And really a deeper trust of self. 'cause the goal, one of the goals of the model is self-leadership and integration, right? So this is a potential opportunity to practice some of that.
Self leadership would self be the one, , could self be the one to decide how much imagination is just right. And what proportion of imagination and expectation are is just [00:18:00] right. You know, what if there was a possibility in which self could, you know, help decide how much is required for each situation or each phase of life, or whatever it is, right?
Offering them these parts a new possibility, and sometimes they might be interested in that. So let's see what happens.
Okay.
Can this part tell you when this first started or the first time this happened?
Sandra: Yeah. It says it was like from day one, there was like an expectation that. Mom and dad would be happy for me to arrive into their world and they would like me as I was, and,[00:19:00]
but that wasn't the case.
John Clarke: Okay? Mm-hmm.
Can, can you ask the part how it, how it knows that that wasn't the case? How did it. How did it realize that mom and dad weren't, weren't so happy?
Sandra: Well, it was kind of mom, you know, mom wasn't happy about, you know, having a child with red hair. Mom wasn't happy about having a child that cried, that didn't eat the way it was supposed to eat, that I think mom felt inadequate and yeah, it just felt so, it was, there was always this feeling of, I'm not what she wants.
That was always okay.
John Clarke: Oh. Yeah. How, can you ask the part how true that feels in this moment? That I'm not what she [00:20:00] wants.
Hmm.
It's kind of a half half, like,
Sandra: yeah, like in some ways
she's okay with some of what I am and in other ways she wishes I could be different so that I could, we could connect, I.
John Clarke: Okay,
Sandra: but there was a, a thought that popped [00:21:00] in straight away, earlier on. That's it. I have to learn to manage. Other people's expectations. So I have, if I, maybe, if I figure out what they need, what they want, then, then I can do it. I can do what it is that they need and they want. So if I make myself really, really, really good at anticipating other people's needs, then.
I can give them what they need when I feel okay to do that.
John Clarke: Hmm. Wow. Okay. So this is manager part energy in a nutshell, right? I proactively make myself. [00:22:00] As good and lovable and helpful as possible to avoid losing love and connection. Right? So I, I can't think of a clip that would be more representative of how a manager part speaks and feels and acts, right, and the mentality that these parts have for really good reason.
And again, you're seeing the reason right here. So when I asked her how true does it feel right now, right? That I'm unlovable. It was kind of another way of checking for Blendedness, right? How blended is she with the part, right? Do I still feel or fear that I'm unlovable to mom even as that adult that she is today and that I can see that she is today and she's like, it's half and half right?
So it's kind of like I'm kind of half blended. With that part. Right. Or to some degree, depending on the actual relationship with her mom, some of it might be true, [00:23:00] right? Her mom may actually find her lovable in some ways and unlovable in other ways. Right? That might be true. And if so, can self hold all of that.
Right. Can self hold all of that. And we, we hold the idea or the belief that, that yes, self can hold all of it, even if that painful reality is true and is part of her life and part of her dynamic with her mom today. Right? But again, that piece of, that, that manager energy just so strong and just so explicit there.
So, um, hopefully you can see that too.